News What's up with this Che Guevara - ah, stuff?

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The discussion centers around the growing trend of wearing Che Guevara's image on clothing, particularly among younger generations, and questions the motivations behind this fascination. Participants express skepticism about whether wearers understand Guevara's historical significance, often comparing him to notorious figures like Stalin and Hitler. Many argue that the commercialization of Guevara's image is ironic, as he opposed capitalism, yet his likeness is used to sell products, often produced under questionable labor practices. The conversation highlights a disconnect between the ideals Guevara represented and the superficial reasons people wear his image, such as a desire to appear rebellious or fashionable. Some contributors note that many wearers lack knowledge about Guevara's actions and beliefs, viewing the trend as a troubling example of cultural appropriation and exploitation. The discussion also touches on broader themes of capitalism and the commodification of revolutionary figures, suggesting that the appeal may lie in the irony itself.
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Anyone know what's the recent fascination with wearing Che Guevara's
image on hats and tee shirts? Is it political? What am I missing here? I've witnessed Mr. Guevara’s likeness a number of times while Christmas shopping. Do the people who wear this stuff have any idea who Guevara really is - or care? Guevara was little more than 'Stalin-lite.' It makes about as much sense to proudly wear Stalin or Hitler's image on a shirt. Now I hear about Hollywood's recent movie produced by Robert Redford that, as I understand, glamorizes this SOB. If true, that's just sort'a creepy. Is the wild-eyed far left really beginning to lose their sense of humanity - or are these just apolitical members of the slack-jawed and brain dead?
 
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It is been around for a while. I also do not understand what is the fascination. I think it's a rebel-image-thing. I understand he's like a mix between James Dean and Mandela for South Americans, and he helped put Castro in place. I was introduced to him by an anti-American from Syria.
 
To me its always been (I'm 29) a good way to identify militant hippies.
 
I've seen them before, and they're usually only worn by idiotic fashion people (ie. I believe I saw Christina Aguilera wearing one once). I doubt any of the people who buy Che shirts really know anything about him, his beliefs, or his actions.

The whole premise of shirts with Che on them always seemed hilarious to me, using a Communist to market a product that was likely made by child labor in some third world country (probabally China, which just adds a whole other level of ironic humor).
 
I've never understood how people supposedly for world peace etc. walk around in Che - shirts ... the guy surely does not qualify as a poster boy.
 
PerennialII said:
I've never understood how people supposedly for world peace etc. walk around in Che - shirts ... the guy surely does not qualify as a poster boy.
I guess if your face has the right qualities, you can be a poster boy for anything.
 
I've been totally unaware of this fashion fascination. But then, I live in the boondocks.

So which clothing company makes Che Guevara Tees ?
 
Well, if you search "Che Guevara t shirts" on google, you get a paid ad for "www.thechestore.com", which touts itself as being "The largest collection of Che Guevara Merchandise anywhere on the WWW" :smile: :biggrin:

Do the people selling this "merchandise" not realize just how DRIPPING in irony their whole business is?

But hell, you don't need to go to speciality sites for PRODUCTS featuring the likeness of a COMMUNIST REVOLUTIONARY WHO HATED THE GLOBAL CAPITALISM THAT PRODUCES THESE PRODUCTS, you can just go to Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/search.ht...036682&keywords=che guevara&tag=pfamazon01-20

:biggrin: :smile: GOD THE IRONY
 
Perhaps it's the irony itself that causes the attraction to the products.
 
  • #10
the only thing more disgusting than this is "the motorcycle diaries" movie coming out.
Give me a break! Perhaps we can next idolize Jerry Farwell to work on the other end of the spectrum!
 
  • #11
phatmonky said:
Perhaps we can next idolize Jerry Farwell to work on the other end of the spectrum!
Who's Jerry Farwell?
 
  • #12
Tsunami said:
Who's Jerry Farwell?
That's Reverend Jerry Falwell to you.
http://www.falwell.com/?a=

He's the most prominant Christian nutjob around currently, on his site he has things like a little logo saying "I vote Christian". I'm sure if you do some googling you'll get more than your share of his right-wing christian nuttyness.
 
  • #13
phatmonky said:
the only thing more disgusting than this is "the motorcycle diaries" movie coming out.
Give me a break! Perhaps we can next idolize Jerry Farwell to work on the other end of the spectrum!
I don't think Jerry Falwell would work, he couldn't pull off a powerful look like Che has on most of those shirts. I think you'll need someone who's more photogenic, someone like http://tedjesuschristgod.org/

Though sadly, while he's not on T-shirts, Jerry Falwell seems to have lots of followers, like those 20% of voters who voted on hate-based religious messages.
 
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  • #14
Tsunami said:
Who's Jerry Farwell?


Illegitimate unknown brother of Falwell... :redface: :wink:
 
  • #15
wasteofo2 said:
I don't think Jerry Falwell would work, he couldn't pull off a powerful look like Che has on most of those shirts. I think you'll need someone who's more photogenic, someone like http://tedjesuschristgod.org/

Though sadly, while he's not on T-shirts, Jerry Falwell seems to have lots of followers, like those 20% of voters who voted on hate-based religious messages.

How about david koresh then...he's militant, ugly, and has long hair...just like che!

http://www.democracycaravan.org/caravan%20people/david%20koresh.jpg
 
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  • #16
What I don't get is the Confederate flags everywhere. Most of these fools don't even know what the Confederation of America was (it's not taught in our schools)
 
  • #17
What I don't get is the Confederate flags everywhere. Most of these fools don't even know what the Confederation of America was (it's not taught in our schools)

Yeah, goes very much in the same box, actually weirder than Che.
 
  • #18
Smurf said:
What I don't get is the Confederate flags everywhere. Most of these fools don't even know what the Confederation of America was (it's not taught in our schools)
Having lived in Mississippi for two years, I strongly disagree. Confederate flags are everywhere and southerners know exactly what they mean.

Or do you mean you see them in another context?
 
  • #19
In mississippi perhapse, but in western Canada only history buffs (i.e. me) know what they stand for. Yet we see them everywhere and when I ask "Why do you have a confederate flag on your car" they say "What's a Confederate flag?" Conformity is so abundant it's disgusting.
 
  • #20
Having lived in Mississippi for two years, I strongly disagree. Confederate flags are everywhere and southerners know exactly what they mean.

Mind educating us on the insights of the people in Mississippi ?
 
  • #21
phatmonky said:
Illegitimate unknown brother of Falwell... :redface: :wink:
Ah. :biggrin: I'd been thinking that might be the case... :wink:
 
  • #22
phatmonky said:
How about david koresh then...he's militant, ugly, and has long hair...just like che!

http://www.democracycaravan.org/caravan%20people/david%20koresh.jpg
[/URL]
:smile:
He looks more like Weird Al than anything :biggrin:

I think the Confederate Flag is an appropriate enough counter-symbol, the amount of right-wing nutjobs who have the confederate flag ON THEIR CAR or ON THEIR SHIRTS AND HATS is many times the amount of left-wing nutjobs who have che shirts or sickle and hammer stuff. Hell, the Confederacy's probabally responsible for the death of more Americans's than all the Communists in history.

Smurf said:
What I don't get is the Confederate flags everywhere. Most of these fools don't even know what the Confederation of America was (it's not taught in our schools)
Canadians...
Have Confederate Flags?

What on Earth? Are these guys mostly racists or what? I know that in America, everyone knows what the Confederate flag means, even the most ignorant inbred sonofa*****. Those ignorant inbred sonsa*****es are usually exactly the ones who wear Confederate flags, specifically because they're racist.
 
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  • #23
wasteofo2 said:
I don't think Jerry Falwell would work, he couldn't pull off a powerful look like Che has on most of those shirts. I think you'll need someone who's more photogenic, someone like http://tedjesuschristgod.org/

Why don't we put Fred Phelps on t-shirts?
 
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  • #24
wasteofo2 said:
Canadians...
Have Confederate Flags?

What on Earth? Are these guys mostly racists or what? I know that in America, everyone knows what the Confederate flag means, even the most ignorant inbred sonofa*****. Those ignorant inbred sonsa*****es are usually exactly the ones who wear Confederate flags, specifically because they're racist.
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Navaljack.png to be more exact. Yes, Canadians. Rednecks mostly. I've yet to meet someone who has one and knows what it means.
 
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  • #25
AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhh!

WHy you guys term Che as this uh...evil being (sep Tigers2B1) put on this planet to bring about death and destruction (okay I've gone a bit far with my imagery :smile: )

Seriously, do you guys have any clue what Che did and how he went about doing it? Read his biography by Anderson:

Maybe you'll learn something.

I'm not going to go out on a rampage and argue anything posted earlier about Che coz I really think you guys need to do some research before posting anything...

Anway - my opinion about the T-Shirt thing. It is quite a disgusting trend really. Here in South Africa, the T-Shirts have been available for about 2 years or so (ie. commercially in the big clothing boutiques) Most people have no clue about even who this guy is but they just wear it for the "cool factor." This has been made worse by the fact that some T-shirts have marijuana leaves conveniently placed next to his face... I think it really, really, really is pathetic. Using Che's image (as it is non-copyrighted following the leftist philosphies) for the sole reason of getting a profit makes me sick. Worse, I've recently seen pics of Steve Biko/Gandhi on T-Shirts with seriously hefty price-tags. (go google there names if you don't know who they are) - with the wearers having no clue even who those people are even though they were some of the most relevant people in the history of South Africa.

It's exploitation like this that really dunbfounds me on why this world can still work on this evil system of capitalism. Nothing is sacred, as such, and humanity is just becoming a real pathetic race.
 
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  • #26
I may need further education on this, but my own premise from the material I've read about him has pretty much led to the conclusions : 1) idealistically good, on many aspects extremely good, 2) but in the end a militant ... which reeks as far as I'm concerned. I hope I'd be able to switch views on this.
 
  • #27
PerennialII said:
I may need further education on this, but my own premise from the material I've read about him has pretty much led to the conclusions : 1) idealistically good, on many aspects extremely good, 2) but in the end a militant ... which reeks as far as I'm concerned. I hope I'd be able to switch views on this.

I think you've got him nailed. A romanticist who imagined himself to be a marxist and got a lot of good people killed for nothing.
 
  • #28
Shahil said:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhh!

WHy you guys term Che as this uh...evil being (sep Tigers2B1) put on this planet to bring about death and destruction (okay I've gone a bit far with my imagery :smile: )

Seriously, do you guys have any clue what Che did and how he went about doing it? Read his biography by Anderson:

Maybe you'll learn something.

I'm not going to go out on a rampage and argue anything posted earlier about Che coz I really think you guys need to do some research before posting anything...

Anway - my opinion about the T-Shirt thing. It is quite a disgusting trend really. Here in South Africa, the T-Shirts have been available for about 2 years or so (ie. commercially in the big clothing boutiques) Most people have no clue about even who this guy is but they just wear it for the "cool factor." This has been made worse by the fact that some T-shirts have marijuana leaves conveniently placed next to his face... I think it really, really, really is pathetic. Using Che's image (as it is non-copyrighted following the leftist philosphies) for the sole reason of getting a profit makes me sick. Worse, I've recently seen pics of Steve Biko/Gandhi on T-Shirts with seriously hefty price-tags. (go google there names if you don't know who they are) - with the wearers having no clue even who those people are even though they were some of the most relevant people in the history of South Africa.

It's exploitation like this that really dunbfounds me on why this world can still work on this evil system of capitalism. Nothing is sacred, as such, and humanity is just becoming a real pathetic race.


I'll idolize che around the time I start idolizing castro...
But then again, you and I have already run the length of this debate, considering that you believe an economic system to be EVIL (which is insane to me as well)
 
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  • #29
Smurf said:
In mississippi perhapse, but in western Canada only history buffs (i.e. me) know what they stand for. Yet we see them everywhere and when I ask "Why do you have a confederate flag on your car" they say "What's a Confederate flag?" Conformity is so abundant it's disgusting.
Now that's just plain funny (disturbing?).
The Navy Jack to be more exact.
You sure its not the Confederate Battle flag - similar to the Navy Jack, but square? That's generally what you see in the US.
PerennialII said:
Mind educating us on the insights of the people in Mississippi ?
Unfortunately, there is still quite a bit of latent racism in the deep south.

And I agree with your assessment of Che as well (not that I know all that much about him). Not a terrible guy, but certainly not someone deserving of hero worship.
 
  • #30
Unfortunately, there is still quite a bit of latent racism in the deep south.

I was hoping it would be in the end, or in part at least, something more grandiose rather than the "usual" meaning .
 
  • #31
russ_watters said:
Unfortunately, there is still quite a bit of latent racism in the deep south.
You get it in upstate New York too, there's still racism nearly everywhere in this nation.
 
  • #32
Really though, you need to divide Che the man from Che the hero. Che the man was a guerilla fighter who aided Castro's non-communist revolution became disillusioned with Castro's stance, and then tried to begin a marxist revolution in south america that hilariously failed. He wasn't exactly Stalin-lite - Che never got anywhere near that level of power, and really Stalin was much less of a revolutionary than he doctored history to claim. In the end, Che had a pretty mixed legacy, or no legacy at all.

Somewhere along the line, Che got this reputation as a symbol of rebellion against the 'system' . Which is fashion-code for someone who is against the establishment, higher authority, old people, and the same pseudo-teenage-angsty-post-coldwar-gibberish that is all the rage. The best way to look at it is simply as a face, a logo, an idol, like a modern crucifix for the non-christian.
 
  • #33
russ_watters said:
Now that's just plain funny (disturbing?).
Yeap. Very Disturbing and the butt of many redneck jokes (the stereotype has these flags)

You sure its not the Confederate Battle flag - similar to the Navy Jack, but square? That's generally what you see in the US. Unfortunately, there is still quite a bit of latent racism in the deep south.
I did a bit of research on the different confederate flags and the Navy Jack is by far the most common.

turns out you need 10 characters outside of a quote to post a reply
 
  • #34
Shahil said:
Seriously, do you guys have any clue what Che did and how he went about doing it? Read his biography by Anderson:

Maybe you'll learn something.

Can't help but notice you posted a link to corporate america... :-p
 
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  • #35
wasteofo2 said:
You get it in upstate New York too, there's still racism nearly everywhere in this nation.
I've been to a bunch of places in the US (though never upstate NY), and the deep south is by far the most overt and pervasive. Yes, there are pockets and individuals everywhere, but in the deep south its cultural.
 
  • #36
I've been in every state in the U.S. and I believe there's a bit of racism everywhere.. in the deep south it's more open Ithink, Mississippi was probably the most racist state I've seen. That may have been because I was in Buloxi. Maine has plenty of racism, less overt though...and in Massachusetts during the short period of time I lived on the south shore and saw plenty of reverse racism when packs of black (majority) children would hunt down the young white (minority) kids on their way home from school. I"ve seen plenty of Arab racism against Blacks and Jews, Jewish racism against arabs and WASP. As well as plenty of racism against Arabs from whites, long before 9-11 or the 1st gulf war.
 
  • #37
More irony involving Che shirts:

Today I was in a mall, and me and the person I was with were accosted by someone in a Che Guevara shirt trying to get us to come and try out/buy this random product. We said no, and kept walking, but he followed us for a few paces, pushily telling us about how great this product was and that we should try it before we brushed it off. I somehow thought aggressive marketing of goods and Che Guevara didn't mix, but I didn't feel like telling the guy, lest he talk to me more about this amazing piece of junk he was selling.
 
  • #38
Here’s a link to a related article at Slate –

…The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system …

…he also spoke about martyrdom and managed to compose a number of chilling phrases: "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107100/

Here’s what our friend, Wikipedia, has to say about Che –

…In 1959, Che Guevara was appointed commander of the La Cabana Fortress prison. During his term as commander of the fortress from 1959–1963, he oversaw the executions of hundreds of political prisoners and regime opponents (estimates range from 500 to 1700). Many individuals imprisoned at La Cabana, such as poet and human rights activist Armando Valladares, allege that Guevara took particular and personal interest in the interrogation, torture, and execution of some prisoners….


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

We all know the Batista regime was corrupt. It seems however, that we all don’t know about the crimes against humanity committed by Guevara. In fact, supporters of Guevara like to quote the words of the follow Marxist, Jean Paul Sartre. Sartre said Guevara was the "most complete human being" he ever met --- that was, of course, before all of the murder – and, as I understand, Sartre soon came to regret the remark.

Anyway, I understand that there's an even NEWER movie in the works that will be titled Che. But - I suppose it's all about catching the wave and making a buck – or at least I hope that's it. The movie supposedly ends with Guevara's death, stoic to the end, at the hands of the CIA (it never actually occurred that way -- but it does add to the Che appeal).
 
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  • #39
Tigers2B1 said:
I understand that there's an even NEWER movie in the works that will be titled Che. But - I suppose it's all about catching the wave and making a buck – or at least I hope that's it.

Capitalism's ultimate weapon: "Turning rebellion into money".
 
  • #40
:bugeye: Is that new? In my country I'm seeing those shirts since always...but I'm with Shahil: Che is very important to all Latin-Americans and I think that he is also important in Africa; especially in Congo. He fought against the oppression of latinamerica, that's the bottom line...
But it is true. I consider that it's extremely ironic all the business that have been made around him (considering HIS IDEAS and BELIEFS). And what make it worse is that 75% of the people who wears his shirts or have a sticker in the car with his face don't have a clue of who was he.
This is a funny thing: Like a month ago I gas in a gas station and one man enter with one of these shirts...the guy that was working at the station asked him who was El Che. And this was the answer: "He was a revolutionary man from Argentina who went to Cuba to free the country from the Castro regime but he failed. Then Fidel order his assassination and killed him"...When I heard that I was in shock...(although the US government at one point made the rumor that Fidel killed Che; that was proven to be false when Che appeared alive...but anyway...El Che never fought against Fidel!) That is a perfect example of how some people speak without knowing nothing about what they are talking about. And, yeap…many of the people that buy these shirts buy them just for the image that they want to project, not for the ideal that represent el Che persé.
 
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