Where does the energy disappear to?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy in the context of atomic structure, specifically addressing the energy associated with electric fields of electrons and protons and the nature of binding energy within an atom. It explores theoretical implications and conceptual clarifications regarding energy states and references.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the energy of the electric field disappears when electrons and protons are present in an atom, noting that the atom itself does not exhibit an electric field.
  • Another participant proposes that the energy of the electric fields becomes the binding energy of the atom, suggesting that this energy can perform work on other systems.
  • A different participant raises a question about the sign difference between the positive energy of the electric field and the negative sign of the binding energy.
  • One participant explains that the reference point for energy can be set arbitrarily, similar to gravitational potential energy and voltage, indicating that binding energy is negative because it reflects the work done in bringing particles together from an infinite separation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy in atomic systems, particularly regarding the disappearance of electric field energy and the interpretation of binding energy. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about reference states for energy and the implications of energy signs, which are not fully explored or resolved.

IPhO' 2008
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When we have electron and proton . Both electron and proton have electric field and electric field has energy.Inside the atom, there are electrons and protons but atom has no electric field.
Why the energy of the electric field disappear?
 
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The energy of the fields becomes the binding energy of the atom i.e. during the binding work can be done on something else.
 
Thank you so much.
 
I have 1 question.
An energy of the electric field has a positive sign (+) . But the binding energy has a negative sign (-).Why?
 
Remember when you first learned about gravitational potential energy that you learned that you could set your h=0 reference point anywhere you wanted, and when you first learned about voltage that you could set your V=0 reference point (ground) anywhere you wanted. This is because only differences in energy have any physical significance and so energies are always implicitly or explicitly with reference to some specified reference state which is arbitrarily given a value of 0 energy. In the case of binding energy the reference state is the unbound constituents, i.e. infinite separation between the various components. The fact that it is negative reflects the fact that e.g. work can be done in bringing an electron and a proton from far away to form a hydrogen atom.
 

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