Where does the equation of the velocity of a free vortex come from?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation and understanding of the equations governing the velocity of free and forced vortices in fluid dynamics. Participants explore the mathematical representations of these velocities and the implications of their differences, focusing on theoretical aspects rather than practical applications or experimental validation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation for a forced vortex, ## v = r\omega ##, and contrasts it with the free vortex equation, ## v = \frac{c}{r} ##, questioning the origin of the latter.
  • Another participant clarifies that the first equation describes the velocity of a point particle in circular motion and provides a vector formulation, emphasizing the distinction between point particle motion and fluid velocity fields.
  • There is a discussion about the vector field representation of the free vortex, with one participant stating that the velocity field can be expressed in Cartesian coordinates and noting its singularity along the z-axis.
  • A participant seeks to understand the derivation of the free vortex equation, asking if it is simply due to the velocity field matching the characteristics of a free vortex.
  • Another participant confirms that the free vortex equation serves as an example of a curl-free vector field, discussing the implications of its singularity and the conditions under which a unique potential exists.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the derivation and implications of the equations for free and forced vortices. No consensus is reached regarding the foundational aspects of the free vortex equation, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the free vortex equation is singular along the z-axis and that the discussion involves complex mathematical concepts, including vector fields and potential functions, which may not be fully resolved in the context of the conversation.

I_laff
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I am aware of the equation of the velocity of a forced vortex, which is simply ## v = r\omega ##. However, the velocity for a free vortex is ## v = \frac{c}{r} ## (## c ## is the 'circulation constant', ## r ## is the radius, ## v ## is the velocity and ## \omega ## is the angular velocity). I understand why you should expect to see a difference in the equations for both the vortices since the free vortex doesn't have a radial velocity, but where does the equation come from?
 
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I'm not so sure what you are after. First of all velocities are vectors (for you first equation) or vector fields.

Your first equation describes the velocity of a point particle rotating around an axis. The full equation is $$\vec{v}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{r},$$
where ##\vec{\omega}## is the angular velocity and ##\vec{r}## the position vector of the particle (with the origin of the reference frame on the axis of rotation).

Proof: Take the rotation axis to be the ##z##-axis of a Cartesian coordinate system and the particle being in the ##xy## plane. For a constant angular velocity you have
$$\vec{r}(t)=a \begin{pmatrix} \cos(\omega t) \\ \sin \omega t \\ 0 \end{pmatrix},$$
and the velocity is
$$\vec{v}(t)=\dot{\vec{r}}(t)=a \omega \begin{pmatrix} -\sin \omega t \\ \cos \omega \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Now ##\vec{\omega}=(0,0,\omega)^{\text{T}}## and thus indeed
$$\vec{v}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{r}.$$

The second equation describes the velocity field of a fluid. In Cartesian coordinates the correct equation is
$$\vec{v}(\vec{r})=\frac{c}{x^2+y^2} \begin{pmatrix} -y \\ x \\0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Note that this is a curl-free vector field everywhere except along the ##z##-axis, where it is singular. Nevertheless the line integral along any closed curve going once around the ##z##-axis gives the value ##2 \pi c##. It's an example for a potential field in a non simply connected domain. It's thus called the "potential vortex".
 
vanhees71 said:
I'm not so sure what you are after. First of all velocities are vectors (for you first equation) or vector fields.

Your first equation describes the velocity of a point particle rotating around an axis. The full equation is $$\vec{v}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{r},$$
where ##\vec{\omega}## is the angular velocity and ##\vec{r}## the position vector of the particle (with the origin of the reference frame on the axis of rotation).

Proof: Take the rotation axis to be the ##z##-axis of a Cartesian coordinate system and the particle being in the ##xy## plane. For a constant angular velocity you have
$$\vec{r}(t)=a \begin{pmatrix} \cos(\omega t) \\ \sin \omega t \\ 0 \end{pmatrix},$$
and the velocity is
$$\vec{v}(t)=\dot{\vec{r}}(t)=a \omega \begin{pmatrix} -\sin \omega t \\ \cos \omega \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Now ##\vec{\omega}=(0,0,\omega)^{\text{T}}## and thus indeed
$$\vec{v}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{r}.$$

The second equation describes the velocity field of a fluid. In Cartesian coordinates the correct equation is
$$\vec{v}(\vec{r})=\frac{c}{x^2+y^2} \begin{pmatrix} -y \\ x \\0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Note that this is a curl-free vector field everywhere except along the ##z##-axis, where it is singular. Nevertheless the line integral along any closed curve going once around the ##z##-axis gives the value ##2 \pi c##. It's an example for a potential field in a non simply connected domain. It's thus called the "potential vortex".
Thanks for the reply, my question better put is, where does the second equation,
$$\vec{v}(\vec{r})=\frac{c}{x^2+y^2} \begin{pmatrix} -y \\ x \\0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
come from. Is it simply that equation because the velocity field of that equation matches the description of a free vortex (i.e. irrotational).
 
Yes, it's simply used as an example for a curl- and source-free vector field (except along the ##z##-axis, where it's singular!), for which
$$\int_C \mathrm{d} \vec{r} \cdot \vec{v}(\vec{r}) = 2 \pi c \neq 0$$
for any closed curve that encircles the ##z##-axis.

It emphasizes the importance that form ##\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{v}## you can only conclude ##\vec{v}=-\vec{\nabla} \phi## locally, i.e., in simply-connected regions around a regular point.

Now globally, the Euclidean ##\mathbb{R}^3## with the ##z##-axis taken out is not simply connected.

To see that ##\vec{v}## has a unique potential only in a region with an entire half-plane with the ##z##-axis as boundary taken out, rewrite it in terms of the usual cylinder coordinates ##(\rho,\varphi,z)##. It's easy to see that it can be written as
$$\vec{v}(\vec{r})=\frac{c}{\rho} \vec{e}_{\varphi}.$$
Obviously it has a local potential in every simply-connected neighborhood of any point not on the ##z##-axis. Since it's only in direction of ##\vec{e}_{\varphi}##, it's suggestive to assume that the potential is a function of ##\varphi## only. Indeed the gradient in cylinder coordinates gives
$$\vec{\nabla} \phi(\varphi)=\frac{1}{\rho} \vec{e}_{\varphi} \partial_\varphi \phi \stackrel{!}{=}-\vec{v}=-\frac{c}{\rho} \vec{e}_{\varphi} \; \rightarrow \; \phi(\varphi)=-c \varphi.$$
Now to get the potential unique, you have to take out some half-plane with the ##z##-axis as boundary. You can, e.g., choose the ##(x,z)##-half-plane with ##x<0##. Then you can choose ##\varphi \in ]-\pi,\pi]##. Then the potential makes a jump at any point on this half-plane by a value of ##2 \pi c##, and indeed that's the value you get for the integral along a closed loop around the ##z##-axis.
 

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