- #31
Fisicks
- 84
- 0
anyone have any underground places where i can get a hardback copy of apostol cheap? lol
Which Calculus Book Will Give Me the True Understanding I'm Looking For?
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around selecting a calculus textbook that provides a deep understanding of calculus concepts, particularly for students transitioning from AP Calculus AB to AP Calculus BC. Participants explore various textbooks, including "The Calculus Lifesaver" by Adrian Banner, "Calculus" by Tom Apostol, and "Calculus" by Michael Spivak, discussing their depth, rigor, and suitability for self-study.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
- Homework-related
Main Points Raised
- One participant enjoyed "The Calculus Lifesaver" and seeks a more in-depth understanding through Apostol or Spivak.
- Some participants find Apostol's text to be more challenging and dry, while Spivak's is described as more enjoyable to read.
- There is a belief among some that both books are interchangeable in terms of educational value, providing a thorough understanding of calculus.
- Concerns about the availability of solutions to exercises in Apostol and Spivak are raised, with clarification that Spivak has answers to selected problems and Apostol includes answers but not solutions for proof-like questions.
- Discussion includes the cost of textbooks, with suggestions to check libraries or consider international editions for affordability.
- Participants share experiences with the quality of international editions, noting differences in binding and printing quality.
- Some express a preference for Spivak over Apostol due to perceived clarity and support in reasoning, while others appreciate the rigor of Apostol's approach.
- Shipping costs and purchasing options from various online retailers are discussed, with recommendations for reliable sources.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants generally agree that both Apostol and Spivak can provide a solid understanding of calculus, but there are differing opinions on which book is preferable based on individual learning styles and preferences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which book is definitively better.
Contextual Notes
Participants note that the choice of textbook may depend on personal learning preferences, the depth of material covered, and the availability of solutions to exercises. There are also considerations regarding the quality of international editions and their suitability for long-term use.
Who May Find This Useful
Students preparing for advanced calculus courses, educators seeking textbook recommendations, and individuals interested in self-study of calculus concepts.
- #32
thrill3rnit3
Gold Member
- 716
- 1
Hardback? Not a chance. They're at least 100 bucks each.
You can get a softback international copy for 1/4th the price. the link is at the previous page, I believe
You can get a softback international copy for 1/4th the price. the link is at the previous page, I believe
- #33
Sankaku
- 708
- 11
I got a hardback copy of Spivak's 3rd edition for about $38 Canadian from amazon.com but I suspect most places will try to sell you the more expensive 4th edition now.
I have seen pdf versions of both Spivak and Apostol floating around, but they are definitely not publisher-approved...
I have seen pdf versions of both Spivak and Apostol floating around, but they are definitely not publisher-approved...
- #34
thrill3rnit3
Gold Member
- 716
- 1
Sankaku said:
I have PDFs of a lot of books. However, I am not a big fan of reading ebooks on your computer. I prefer having the actual book so I can take it wherever I want to go. I also get distracted easily when I'm in front of the computer
- #35
Landau
Science Advisor
- 905
- 0
You know, computers nowadays are often connected with a printer, so you can convert digital text into paper with ink
- #36
thrill3rnit3
Gold Member
- 716
- 1
Landau said:You know, computers nowadays are often connected with a printer, so you can convert digital text into paper with ink
yeah I'm going to print 600 pages of text off of my home printer
no way man
- #37
Landau
Science Advisor
- 905
- 0
Long live free printing at our university!
- #38
thrill3rnit3
Gold Member
- 716
- 1
Landau said:
Well I'm not a college student
- #39
thrill3rnit3
Gold Member
- 716
- 1
Anyways, will Spivak's Calculus be an enough preparation for his Calculus on Manifolds?
- #40
qspeechc
- 839
- 15
In the preface, Spivak says linear algebra and "a respectable first-year calculus course. So linear algebra + Spivak's Calculus would suffice, I presume.
- #41
Sankaku
- 708
- 11
Here is a great quote (not me!) about Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds:
"...Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds, the terrifying little white book. When I took the course and was in the bookstore picking up the text, I felt a sense of trepidation as I looked at this tiny white paperback, only about 120 pages long, for a two semester course (26 weeks). That's less than a page a day, on average. And even putting aside the pages with problems on them, just the text pages can sometimes take a day each, if you're serious about understanding every (often omitted) detail. I don't actually mean it would take you the whole day to understand, but sufficient effort that you would feel like that was enough for one day. There are also sometimes errors in the book because the author was not being careful - easy to correct if you are at his level and pause for a moment to think about it, but sometimes daunting for a beginning student really trying to understand all the details...
When I took that course I breathed, slept and ate the Little White Book. I still remember approximately the pages and range of problem numbers in which to find particular results and particular problems, ten years later. I made sure to understand every detail of every proof, and to fill in everything that had been omitted, and to correct every error that I noticed. In this way I was able to do very well, and to really feel like I had achieved something."
"...Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds, the terrifying little white book. When I took the course and was in the bookstore picking up the text, I felt a sense of trepidation as I looked at this tiny white paperback, only about 120 pages long, for a two semester course (26 weeks). That's less than a page a day, on average. And even putting aside the pages with problems on them, just the text pages can sometimes take a day each, if you're serious about understanding every (often omitted) detail. I don't actually mean it would take you the whole day to understand, but sufficient effort that you would feel like that was enough for one day. There are also sometimes errors in the book because the author was not being careful - easy to correct if you are at his level and pause for a moment to think about it, but sometimes daunting for a beginning student really trying to understand all the details...
When I took that course I breathed, slept and ate the Little White Book. I still remember approximately the pages and range of problem numbers in which to find particular results and particular problems, ten years later. I made sure to understand every detail of every proof, and to fill in everything that had been omitted, and to correct every error that I noticed. In this way I was able to do very well, and to really feel like I had achieved something."
- #42
n!kofeyn
- 535
- 3
thrill3rnit3 said:
It will definitely be enough for the calculus, but I'm not for sure how much linear algebra he covers in the calculus book. So you might want to pick up some linear algebra before tackling his manifolds book. It is not an easy book as the exercises drive the book's worth, and there isn't much material to go off of.
Sankaku said:
I somehow find this hard to believe. I wonder if it was a graduate or undergraduate level course or if it was an independent study type course. My graduate course in calculus on manifolds covered chapters 1-14 (minus 9 & 10) of Lee's Introduction to Smooth Manifolds, which amounts to around 300 pages of very dense material in a one-semester course. I also don't think it is normal with one page taking you an entire day to fill in the details.
- #43
Sankaku
- 708
- 11
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