Which expression for Relativistic Kinetic Energy is correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correct expression for relativistic kinetic energy, comparing two different sources that provide conflicting definitions. Participants explore the implications of these definitions and their derivations, focusing on theoretical aspects of relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that one source defines relativistic kinetic energy as EK = γmc², while another defines it as EK = γmc² - mc², questioning which is correct.
  • One participant argues that the second definition is correct, stating that E = γmc² represents total energy, not kinetic energy, and suggests a Taylor expansion to show that the first term approximates Newtonian kinetic energy for small velocities.
  • Another participant challenges the interpretation of the first source, indicating that it does not explicitly label γmc² as kinetic energy, but rather as energy in general.
  • A later reply clarifies the expressions by suggesting that the first source refers to total energy (TE) and the second to kinetic energy (KE), and introduces the concept of rest energy (RE) to further explain the relationship between these quantities.
  • One participant provides a mathematical relationship for total energy and rest energy, indicating that rest energy is invariant across reference frames, particularly in elastic collisions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on which expression for relativistic kinetic energy is correct. Multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and interpretations of the terms involved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the definitions of energy and the context in which they are applied. The mathematical steps and relationships presented are not fully resolved, leaving room for interpretation.

rhz_prog
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I saw that the Relativistic Kinetic Energy calculation for these two sources, seems to be different :

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html
see : Conservation of Energy
EK = gamma*m*c^2

While here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
see : Relativistic kinetic energy of rigid bodies
EK = gamma*m*c^2 - m*c^2

Which one is right ? Or did I misunderstand something ?
 
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I haven't read the first link, but from what I know I'd say that the second definition is the right one. [itex]E = \gamma mc^{2}[/itex] is the total energy, not the kinetic energy. You can Taylor expand the first expression [itex]E = \gamma mc^{2} - mc^{2}[/itex] with respect to the variable v/c. The first term in the expression, [itex]\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}[/itex] represents the Newtonian kinetic energy, which will be the dominant term if v/c is small.
 
Where does the first link say that? All I can see under "conservation of energy" is:

E_final = γmc^2 + E_L

?
 
rhz_prog said:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html
see : Conservation of Energy
EK = gamma*m*c^2

That page does not refer to [itex]\gamma m c^2[/itex] as kinetic energy, but rather, simply as "energy". In fact, the word "kinetic" does not appear on that page at all!
 
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rhz_prog said:
I saw that the Relativistic Kinetic Energy calculation for these two sources, seems to be different :

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html
see : Conservation of Energy
EK = gamma*m*c^2

While here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
see : Relativistic kinetic energy of rigid bodies
EK = gamma*m*c^2 - m*c^2

Which one is right ? Or did I misunderstand something ?

Your expressions are better written as:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html
see : Conservation of Energy
TE = gamma*m*c^2

While here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
see : Relativistic kinetic energy of rigid bodies
KE = gamma*m*c^2 - m*c^2

where TE is Total Energy and KE is Kinetic Energy.
The second expression can also be written as:

KE = TE - RE

where RE is Rest Energy or rest mass energy.

Total Energy can can also be found from this relationship:

[itex]TE = \sqrt{(gamma*m*v*c)^2+(m*c^2)^2} = \sqrt{(pc)^2+(mc^2)^2}[/itex]

which can be written as:

[itex]TE = \sqrt{ME^2+RE^2}[/itex]

where ME is Momentum Energy.

By rearranging this becomes :

[itex]RE = \sqrt{TE^2-ME^2}[/itex]

Since rest energy is usually an invariant, the quantity [itex]\sqrt{TE^2-ME^2}[/itex] is the same when switching from one reference frame to another. In fact, in a perfectly elastic collision, the quantity [itex]\sqrt{TE^2-ME^2}[/itex] is the same for a given particle before and after the collision.

Hope that helps.
 
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