Which of the following implications are right?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter evinda
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of divisibility in number theory, specifically examining several statements related to whether certain conditions of divisibility hold true. Participants explore theoretical reasoning and provide examples and counterexamples to support their claims.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the implication $a|b^{n} \Rightarrow a|b$ is false, providing a counterexample with $20|10^2 \nRightarrow 20|10$.
  • Others argue that the implication $a^n|b^n \Rightarrow a|b$ is true, suggesting a proof by contradiction assuming $b \neq 0 \pmod{a}$.
  • It is proposed that $a^n|b \Rightarrow a|b$ is true, with some participants agreeing on the reasoning provided.
  • Some participants note that the fourth implication $a^3|b^3 \Rightarrow a|b$ is a special case of the second implication.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of $a \nmid b$ and how it relates to the proofs being discussed, with participants questioning if a specific relation needs to be replaced to show the implications.
  • One participant introduces the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic to argue that if $a \nmid b$, then $a$ must contain a prime factor not present in $b$, leading to a contradiction regarding the powers of prime factors in $a^n$ and $b^n$.
  • Another participant elaborates on the reasoning involving modular arithmetic and the implications of $a^n|b$ leading to contradictions when assuming $b \neq 0 \pmod{a}$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the truth of the second and third implications, while there is disagreement regarding the first implication, which some participants claim is false. The fourth implication is noted to be a special case of the second, but there is some confusion about the relationships between the implications.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the proofs and whether certain relations need to be adjusted to demonstrate the implications correctly. There are also unresolved questions regarding the clarity of the implications and their proofs.

evinda
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,741
Reaction score
0
Hi! :)
Which of the following implications are right?
  • $a|b^{n} \Rightarrow a|b$
  • $a^n|b^n \Rightarrow a|b$
  • $a^n|b \Rightarrow a|b$
  • $a^3|b^3 \Rightarrow a|b$
Prove the right ones and give a counterexample for the wrong ones.

That's what I think..
  • Wrong.Counterexample: $ 20|10^2 \nRightarrow 20|10$
  • Wrong,because $a^n|b^n \Rightarrow b^n=ka^n=(k \cdot a^{n-1}) \cdot a \Rightarrow a|b^n$,and from the first sentence it is wrong..But I have not found a counterexample! :confused:
  • It is true because $a^n|b \Rightarrow b=ka^n=(k \cdot a^{n-1}) \cdot a \Rightarrow a|b$
  • I think it is true,but I don't know how to prove it :o

Is that what I have tried so far right? (Thinking)
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
1. Is false, as you have shown.

2. Is true. Try assuming $b \neq 0 \pmod{a}$ and arrive at contradiction.

3. Is true. Reasoning is okay.

4. A special case of 2.
 
Last edited:
mathbalarka said:
4. A special case of 1.

Erm... of 2?
 
Ya, 2.
 
mathbalarka said:
1. Is false, as you have shown.

2. Is true. Try assuming $b \neq 0 \pmod{a}$ and arrive at contradiction.

3. Is true. Reasoning is okay.

4. A special case of 2.

2. Do you mean that $a \nmid b$ means that $b=q \cdot a+r (*)$
Since $a^n|b^n \Rightarrow b^n=ka^n$ ..Do I have to replace the relation (*) to show it?? :confused:

3.Could I also show it in an other way?
 
evinda said:
2. Do you mean that $a \nmid b$ means that $b=q \cdot a+r (*)$
Since $a^n|b^n \Rightarrow b^n=ka^n$ ..Do I have to replace the relation (*) to show it?? :confused:

I do not know what mathbalarka intended, but here's another way.

According to the Fundamental theorem of arithmetic every number has a unique prime factorization.
So suppose $a \nmid b$, then $a$ must contain a power of a prime factor that is not in $b$.
In that case $a^n$ will also have a power of a prime factor that is not in $b^n$, which is a contradiction.
3.Could I also show it in an other way?

Your method is fine.
Another way is by using the Fundamental theorem of arithmetic again.

$a^n|b$ implies that $a^n$ contains only prime powers that are also in $b$.
But then $a$ can also only contain prime powers that are also in $b$.
Therefore $a^n|b \Rightarrow a|b$.
 
Yes, if $b \neq 0$ (mod $a$) this means:

$b = qa + r$ for some $0 < r < a$.

Since $a^n|b$ we have:

$b = ka^n = qa + r$.

Thus:

$ka^n - qa = r$, which is to say that:

$a(ka^{n-1} - q) = r$.

Since $a$ divides the left, $a$ divides the right, that is: $a|r$.

But $r < a$ and $r \neq 0$...how can this be?

For if $at = r$ for some integer $t$, we have:

$0 < r = at < a \implies 0 < t < 1$.

But there is no non-zero integer between 0 and 1.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K