Which of the two dielectrics breaks down first?

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In summary, the conversation discusses a scenario where a parallel plate capacitor with area A = 1 cm2 and plate separation d = 0.01m is filled with water at room temperature (20°C) in a mica cylinder with a volume of 1cm3. The maximum capacitance, voltage, and charge for the capacitor are calculated for both the mica and water dielectrics. It is determined that the mica containing the water will break down first due to its lower breakdown voltage compared to that of water. The conversation also presents a formula for calculating the maximum voltage across each capacitor in a series.
  • #1
HelloCthulhu
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Homework Statement



A parallel plate capacitor has area A = 1 cm2 and a plate separation of d = 0.01m (1cm). Water at room temp (20°C) is poured into a mica cylinder and placed between the plates filling the volume of 1cm3. Find the Maximum capacitance, voltage and charge for the capacitor as well as which dielectric will break down first.

Homework Equations



Q=CV

V = Edmica
cyclinder thickness = 0.25cm x 2 (touches both sides of the capacitor =0.5cm = 0.005m)

dielectric constant = 3-6 (3)

dielectric breakdown = E = 118MV/mwater
thickness = d = 0.005m

electric constant = ε0 = 8.854×10−12 F

dielectric constant = K = 80.1

dielectric breakdown = 65MV/mCapacitance for 2 capacitors in series:
$$C_T\frac{C_1\times C_2}{C_1+C_2}$$
Breakdown voltage the capacitor:
$$V{max}=\frac{V_{bd}}{\frac{C_T}{C_1}}$$

The Attempt at a Solution



In a two dielectric capacitor, if one dielectric breaks down the capacitor fails. To solve for the voltage across each capacitor in series, first find the capacitance:https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/capacitor/cap_7.htmlSeries capacitor specs:

$$C=K\varepsilon_0\frac{A}{d}$$

Max voltage for mica:

$$(118\times10^6V)\times0.005m=590\times10^3V=590kV$$

Max voltage for water:

$$(65\times10^6V)\times0.005m=325\times10^3V= 325kV$$

Capacitance for mica:

$$C=K\varepsilon_0\frac{A}{d}=C=\frac{(8.85\times10^{-12})\times3\times0.0001}{0.005}=5.31\times10^{-13}F=0.531pF$$

Capacitance for water:

$$\frac{(8.85\times10^{-12})\times80.1\times0.0001}{0.005}=1.41777\times10^{-11}F=14.1777pF=14.2pF$$

Charge for mica:

$$(118\times10^6V)\times(5.31\times10^{-13}F) =6.2658\times10^{-5}C=626.58nC=627nC$$

Charge for water:

$$(65\times10^6V)\times1.41777\times10^{-11}F=5.529303\times10^{-8}=552.9303nC=553nC$$(this equation can be used when only two capacitors are in series)

$$C_T\frac{C_1\times C_2}{C_1+C_2}$$$$C_T=\frac{(1.41777\times10^{-11}F)\times (5.31\times10^{-13}F)}{(1.41777\times10^{-11}F)+(5.31\times10^{-13}F)}=\frac{(7.528359\times10^-24) F}{(1.47087\times10^-11)F}=5.11830\times10^{-13} = 0.511830pF=0.512pF$$$$V_{C_{1}}=\frac{C_T}{C_1}\times V_T$$I modified this equation to solve for the max voltage across the mica's breakdown voltage(bd1):

$$V_{bd1}=\frac{C_T}{C_1}\times V{max}$$$$V{max}=\frac{V_{bd}}{\frac{C_T}{C_1}}$$

mica:

$$V_{c1}max=\frac{59\times10^4V}{\frac{0.511830pF

}{0.531pF}}=\frac{59\times10^4V}{0.963898pF}=612,097.7668371V=612.1kV$$

water:

$$V_{c2}max=\frac{325\times10^3V}{\frac{0.511830pF

}{14.1777pF}}=\frac{325\times10^3V}{0.036101pF}=9002505.71V=9MV$$

The mica containing the water will break down first.
 
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  • #2
HelloCthulhu said:
A parallel plate capacitor has area A = 1 cm2 and a plate separation of d = 0.01m (1cm). Water at room temp (20°C) is poured into a mica cylinder and placed between the plates filling the volume of 1cm3.
You've done lots of work which is great.

But, I'm having trouble visualizing this setup. How in the world can a cylinder with a volume of 1cm^3 fill the volume between 1cm^2 plates spaced 1cm apart?. Can you post the figure that goes with this? Does the cylinder not really fill the total rectangular area between the square plates? Thanks. (sorry if I'm missing the obvious)
 
  • #3
berkeman said:
You've done lots of work which is great.

But, I'm having trouble visualizing this setup. How in the world can a cylinder with a volume of 1cm^3 fill the volume between 1cm^2 plates spaced 1cm apart?. Can you post the figure that goes with this? Does the cylinder not really fill the total rectangular area between the square plates? Thanks. (sorry if I'm missing the obvious)

No it's ok. This isn't really homework just a scenario I've been experimenting with mathematically. I guess it's more of an approximation. Here's a related post I made back in March. I just changed a few of the specs:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/max-values-for-a-2-dielectric-capacitor.941359/#post-5954565
 

FAQ: Which of the two dielectrics breaks down first?

What is dielectric breakdown?

Dielectric breakdown is the process in which an insulating material, known as a dielectric, loses its ability to resist electrical current and becomes conductive.

What are the two dielectrics being compared?

The two dielectrics being compared are usually different materials, such as air and a solid insulator, that are being tested for their breakdown strength.

How is dielectric strength measured?

Dielectric strength is typically measured by applying a voltage to the material until it breaks down and becomes conductive. The highest voltage at which this occurs is known as the dielectric strength.

What factors can affect dielectric breakdown?

Some of the factors that can affect dielectric breakdown include temperature, humidity, and the presence of impurities or defects in the material.

Why is it important to know which dielectric breaks down first?

Knowing which dielectric breaks down first can help in choosing the most suitable material for a particular application, such as in electrical insulation. It can also provide valuable information for improving the design and safety of electrical systems.

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