Who was the true hero behind the Rebel Alliance's victory in Rogue One?

[RooksAndBooks]

I would give it somewhere between three to four stars. I did think the movie served its purpose well, but I had a few issues with it that slightly ruined it for me.

My five big issues:

Spoiler

1. Saw Gerrera. I didn't think he went out like he should have. He basically died due to the fallout of blast of Jedha, although he did look like he could've boarded a ship. If you have watched the Clone Wars, you will know that he is a resilient, ambitious warrior. He, along with other members of the Onderon militia, took over the city of Iziz and then as a result took over Onderon back from the Separatists. He is not some side character that I felt should have been killed without taking multiple blaster shots. A nit I also have is that his eye color changed, seeming somewhat arbitrarily. The Saw Gerrera in Rogue One had brown eyes. On Onderon, he had green-ish eyes. I thought that his change of eye color was unnecessary, and I thought they should've changed it because they changed Chirrut Îmwe's eyes.
2. Chirrut Îmwe. I thought he was pretty empty (at least compared to the other characters) and was vexing due to his constant reiteration of the phrase, "I am one with the Force, the Force is with me."
3. Settings. At times, the capricious change of setting was overwhelming. Towards the beginning of the movie, it changed the settings more than once in what felt like less than 10 minutes; this included the Ring of Kreffne, Wobani, and so on.
4. Uninspiring soundtrack. Star Wars music is arguably some the best movie music. From masterpieces such as Duel of the Fates to Imperial March, audiences never fail to admire the music of Star Wars. However, the songs in this movie were somewhat uninspiring. It felt as if they just copied the original pieces and changed a few things. Some of the music, in my opinion, was just flat out boring as well. I believe that the music in this movie represents the least of what Star Wars music has to offer.
5. No/little mention of the Geonosians. The Geonosians played a major part in the creation of the Death Star. At the end of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, you can see Poggle the Lesser handing the Death Star plans to Count Dooku. It was a shame to me that there was little, if any, mention of them in the movie.

 

[DaveC426913]

The first half was OK. The second half made me happy, seeing all my old friends from 40 years ago: X-Wing, Y-wing, etc.

Spoiler: Some comments

• Looks like they took a page out of Independence Day: The climactic tension centred around ... uploading some data.
• Where were all the Bothans? Many died to bring them that data! I kept waiting to see them appear in the final act.
• I kept wondering why the main characters were not memorable. It wasn't until the end that I realized why. They had to go. They are not in the next movies, which begins about two minutes after this one ends.

 

[phinds]

Just saw it. One of the worst movies I've ever seen. Nice story-line tie-in w/ the death star plans getting to Princess Lea and a good through-line with the fighter pilots towards the end, but basically just boring as all get out.

 

[Rubidium_71]

I liked it. It reminded me a little of the Dirty Dozen. It was good they stuck with the suicide mission dynamic. I saw it twice over holiday break, once with my wife and again with my brother. Both times people in the theater applauded at the end, which was a little surprising. The best part is the last minute or so of the film, I think that is what pleased the crowd. I wouldn't have minded more Sith action beyond the little bit we saw. Maybe a little less of the dandy in his white cape and a little more of Vader.

 

[dkotschessaa]

What a super fun movie for a date night (with my wife of course).

 

[DaveC426913]

The best part is the last minute or so of the film, I think that is what pleased the crowd.

+1

 

[dkotschessaa]

The best part is the last minute or so of the film, I think that is what pleased the crowd.

Spoiler

I saw post Carrie Fisher's death. A few people (including myself) teared up a little. sniffle sniffle

 

[john101]

I saw Star Wars when it came out and apart from the opening visual effects I found it boring. Perhaps the pre release hype is responsible. Since then I've only watched a couple of the others in the franchise. The whole premise seems contrived and forced, to me. The characters cartoonish.

I watched Rogue One last night and

Tarkin and Leia were not convincing. Obviously CGI. The facial expression were wrong and Tarkins voice was not as clipped as Cushing nor the right accent (ditto Vader)

The use of a landscape reminiscent of the tragedy of Vietnam was offputting. Apocalyse Now kept popping into my mind.

Otherwise I think it's better than Star Wars.

 

[DaveC426913]

The whole premise seems contrived and forced, to me. The characters cartoonish.

Yes and yes.

This is classic Space Opera. Different from harder science fiction.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

It made money, so there will be more.

Off topic: I've heard that Doby had to die because he was a Sith Lord. Comic culture mash-up time?

 

[russ_watters]

I saw on Friday and really liked it. I had seen some criticisms in a USA Today review, but disagreed:
1. Overly earnest tone. I think they were entitled to it.
2. Overpowering music (both too loud and overly dramatic). Just plain wrong. If anything, the music was weak. Part of the greatness of Star Wars is that the music is essentially the narrator of the movie. This movie's music did not live up to that. Notable that it is the only one of the 8 movies not scored by John Williams himself. Big mistake, but it feels more like a missing character than exactly a "flaw". Like, 'oh, wouldn't it have been nice if _____ had been included in the movie?'

Tarkin and Leia were not convincing. Obviously CGI. The facial expression were wrong and Tarkins voice was not as clipped as Cushing nor the right accent...

I thought Tarkin was pretty good, but Leia not very good. However, I think that the fact I was really looking for the CGI impacted my impression. I'm not sure if people who aren't very familiar with Star Wars (yes, there are a few -- especially kids) will notice. And there were a few other characters from EP IV who made appearances that I couldn't tell if they were borrowed footage, new actors or digital. I'll have to look it up at some point.

(ditto Vader)

Vader was voiced by James Earl Jones as always. His problem has always been that he's not a very good actor, so if he got the accent wrong its his own fault. Caveat being that his voice had no doubt changed as he has aged.

 

[russ_watters]

And there were a few other characters from EP IV who made appearances that I couldn't tell if they were borrowed footage, new actors or digital. I'll have to look it up at some point.

Ok, just looked it up: it's all three.

 

[dkotschessaa]

I thought Tarkin was pretty good, but Leia not very good. However, I think that the fact I was really looking for the CGI impacted my impression. I'm not sure if people who aren't very familiar with Star Wars (yes, there are a few -- especially kids) will notice. And there were a few other characters from EP IV who made appearances that I couldn't tell if they were borrowed footage, new actors or digital. I'll have to look it up at some point.

I literally had no idea. I thought the face was sort of familiar, but I'm not a big star wars fan, and I wasn't aware of or looking for CGI.

Vader was voiced by James Earl Jones as always. His problem has always been that he's not a very good actor, so if he got the accent wrong its his own fault. Caveat being that his voice had no doubt changed as he has aged.

I thought the voice was great, but found the physicality of Vader to be a bit off. He seemed a little to lithe or agile or something What made him a great villain before was never his movement, but a kind of intimidating stillness he gave off even when he was fighting.

-Dave K

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Vader's helmet was off, I think, too much "neck".

 

[DaveC426913]

I thought Tarkin was pretty good, but Leia not very good.

I thought Tarkin was near perfect. Leia too.

But my criteria is less about if it accurately reflects what I recall them looking like - and more about whether they looked like they were still trapped in CGI-dead-eye.

I would say no. This is the escape from the Uncanny Valley.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Tarkin's facial musculature moved better than Leia's. She looked like a balloon.

 

[DaveC426913]

Tarkin's facial musculature moved better than Leia's. She looked like a balloon.

It is possible that this is more an artifact of our having seen her constantly through an additional 4 decades on-screen, our impression of her changing as she aged 40 years.

Did she look like the 21 year old Leia as seen in A New Hope? When is the last time you watched it?

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I haven't been following her at all, so probably not.

 

[Rubidium_71]

I thought they could have gotten away with just showing Leia from behind when she was handed the data. The flowing white clothing made it pretty obvious who it was and it was a very brief shot.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I thought they could have gotten away with just showing Leia from behind when she was handed the data. The flowing white clothing made it pretty obvious who it was and it was a very brief shot.

I suspect they want the public to accept these images because the company will need them in future movies.

 

[dkotschessaa]

The only people for whom the CGI wasn't convincing were people scrutinizing the movie to see whether the CGI was convincing.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

The only people for whom the CGI wasn't convincing were people scrutinizing the movie to see whether the CGI was convincing.

After Bakshi's rotogravure and the ... odd ... art of "Fantastic Planet" I was just interested in seeing how far along they were.

 

[phinds]

The only people for whom the CGI wasn't convincing were people scrutinizing the movie to see whether the CGI was convincing.

No, that's absolutely not true. I thought for a second they were somehow using old scenes modified to fit but realized almost instantly that this was CGI.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

No, that's absolutely not true. I thought for a second they were somehow using old scenes modified to fit but realized almost instantly that this was CGI.

So you found them convincing. DK referred to people who went with the foreknowledge of the CGI and were doing a bit of pre-judging.

 

[phinds]

So you found them convincing.

I don't understand how you got that from what I said. I did NOT find it convincing. It was CGI[/QUOTE]

 

[dkotschessaa]

I don't understand how you got that from what I said. I did NOT find it convincing. It was CGI

I guess what we are trying to figure out whether recognizing something as CGI constitutes its not being convincing.

 

[phinds]

I guess what we are trying to figure out whether recognizing something as CGI constitutes its not being convincing.

Well for me it wasn't. It was an intrusive scene even though as part of the back story for "future" files (already shown) it was probably the right thing to do.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I don't understand how you got that from what I said. I did NOT find it convincing. It was CGI

[/QUOTE]
Because that's how I read it.

 

[phinds]

Because that's how I read it.

An interesting example of how we all (well, I think it's all of us, it's certainly true for me) sometimes think we're being very clear in our meaning and yet others hear something quite different.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

An interesting example of how we all (well, I think it's all of us, it's certainly true for me) sometimes think we're being very clear in our meaning and yet others hear something quite different.

I'm married, so it happens all the time here. ;)

 

[sanman]

Saw the movie twice - I enjoyed it that much. I liked the whole Manhattan Project angle (in fact, the original working title for this movie was "Destroyer of Worlds"). Hardcore Star Wars fans may have known about it all along, but I was very surprised to learn what the Death Star shared in common with another famous weapon of the Star Wars universe. ("Only the largest stars have hearts of Kyber...")

 

[dkotschessaa]

Saw the movie twice - I enjoyed it that much. I liked the whole Manhattan Project angle

Wow, I totally missed that connection.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Wow, I totally missed that connection.

I thought the pudgy colonel would have tipped you off.

 

[sanman]

Wow, I totally missed that connection.

Well, Mads Mikkelson's character Galen Erso is the Oppenheimer. If you liked Rogue One, then you may enjoy reading the novel "Catalyst", which provides the backstory for Galen Erso, Orson Krennic, and the events leading up to the movie.

 

[dkotschessaa]

After years of being a Trek fan I am not sure what I would think of myself if I read a Star Wars novel. That's like committing. But I'll think about it.

 

[sanman]

After years of being a Trek fan I am not sure what I would think of myself if I read a Star Wars novel. That's like committing. But I'll think about it.

Well, this one is written by James Luceno - the best in the business - and it makes for gripping reading. It even made the NY Times best seller list.

 

[DaveC426913]

The only people for whom the CGI wasn't convincing were people scrutinizing the movie to see whether the CGI was convincing.

Star Wars fans have loved Star Wars, warts and all, for 40 years. Scrutinizing its warts is a sign of fandom love.

I love going back and watching SW:ANH to see how quaint were the alien costumes, space effects and Hamil's acting.

I wouldn't love my Raggedy Andy doll (if I had one) any less with missing buttons and lost stuffing.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

"It's just a movie, it's just a movie, it's just a movie."

 

[sanman]

What gives Star Wars its enduring appeal is its vast and rich universe depicted through magnificent visual spectacle

I think this whole anthology movie series idea is about exploring the wealth of environments and situations in this universe, beyond the main established storyline.

 

[Rubidium_71]

I suspect they want the public to accept these images because the company will need them in future movies.

I'm don't see a use for either character in any future film. The 1977 Princess Leia shouldn't need to be CGI'd into anything else. Same goes for Tarkin.
Unless you're just referring to them using that technique in general. Either way, their CGI still needs some work in my opinion. Seeing it didn't ruin the film for me, but I wasn't impressed. Like I said before, they could've easily just shown her from the back. Tarkin they could've dropped completely, it wouldn't have bothered me. But it is what it is, I'll still pick it up on Bluray when it comes out.

 

[sanman]

Well, they can always give us Carrie as a Force Ghost - after all, once Han was dead, Leia might have lost her will to live

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I'm don't see a use for either character in any future film. The 1977 Princess Leia shouldn't need to be CGI'd into anything else. Same goes for Tarkin.
Unless you're just referring to them using that technique in general. Either way, their CGI still needs some work in my opinion. Seeing it didn't ruin the film for me, but I wasn't impressed. Like I said before, they could've easily just shown her from the back. Tarkin they could've dropped completely, it wouldn't have bothered me. But it is what it is, I'll still pick it up on Bluray when it comes out.

I'm not sure why you said "shouldn't"...

 

[DaveC426913]

"It's just a movie, it's just a movie, it's just a movie."

Not for some of us.

I was 13. A very impressionable age.

It defined me wholly for two decades (as a sci-fi nerd, artist and a film industry wannabe) and partially for another 2.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Not for some of us.

I was 13. A very impressionable age.

It defined me wholly for two decades (as a sci-fi nerd, artist and a film industry wannabe) and partially for another 2.

"It's just a movie, but you can obsess about it. "

 

[Rubidium_71]

Well, they can always give us Carrie as a Force Ghost - after all, once Han was dead, Leia might have lost her will to live

It takes a lot of mojo to come back as a Force ghost and it didn't look like Leia ever had any formal training. Even Qui-Gon was only able to come back as a disembodied voice as far as I can remember. Obi-Wan was also just a voice after his death in New Hope before he finally was able to appear as a vision in Empire. Since I was never a fan of Hayden Christensen showing up as a Force Ghost I wouldn't really be interested in seeing a CGI Leia come back to haunt us.

I'm not sure why you said "shouldn't"...

Rogue One takes the story right up to New Hope, so they shouldn't need to recreate/CGI the 1977 Leia for any future films they have planned.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Rogue One takes the story right up to New Hope, so they shouldn't need to recreate/CGI the 1977 Leia for any future films they have planned.

The intervening thirty years were uneventful?

 

[DaveC426913]

The intervening thirty years were uneventful?

Which intervening 30 years?

Rubidium specified the 1977 Leia doesn't need to be recreated.
Unless, I suppose, they make a film post-SW:3 and pre-SW:3.5. But then she'd be a teenager.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Which intervening 30 years?

Rubidium specified the 1977 Leia doesn't need to be recreated.
Unless, I suppose, they make a film post-SW:3 and pre-SW:3.5. But then she'd be a teenager.

Okay, the next X years while she still looked like her Return self. (Are we really stressing on this?)

 

[Rubidium_71]

But then she'd be a teenager.

Quite right, Phinds, and in that event they would likely re-cast the part rather than employ CGI.

As far as I know, aside from Episodes 7,8 and 9 the studio plans to do a young Han Solo movie (Leia and Han didn't meet until Episode 4, so her character shouldn't even need to be in that one) and a Boba Fett movie. I haven't heard of any plans for a young Leia movie, so they shouldn't need to have any more Leia CGI appearances and that's a good thing in my opinion.

The intervening thirty years were uneventful?

There's plenty of SW material filling in that episode 3-4 gap already. Some of it I do find interesting.

Are we really stressing on this?

Not me, I'm simply answering your question and commenting on the film I saw.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

We're good then. The last movie I got excited about was "Creature from the Black Lagoon."