Who Will Win the 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics?

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The discussion centers around the anticipation of the Nobel Prize announcements scheduled for October 7, particularly in the field of physics. Participants express excitement and speculate on potential winners, with a focus on neutrino research and the contributions of scientists like Takaaki Kajita and Art McDonald. There is a debate about the significance of blue LEDs, awarded the Nobel Prize, with opinions varying on whether their impact is comparable to groundbreaking inventions like the transistor. Some argue that blue LEDs, while beneficial for energy efficiency and scientific applications, do not represent a revolutionary advancement akin to the transistor's role in ushering in the modern information age. The conversation also touches on the historical context of LED development and the contributions of earlier researchers, suggesting a nuanced view of innovation and recognition in science. Overall, the thread captures a mix of excitement for the upcoming announcements and a deeper reflection on the nature of scientific progress and its recognition.
  • #61
Posted info indicates average of .4W/bulb and max of .45W in standby mode. The bulbs also act as 'repeaters' to extend the overall reach of the coverage area with less power.
 
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  • #62
TumblingDice said:
Posted info indicates average of .4W/bulb and max of .45W in standby mode. The bulbs also act as 'repeaters' to extend the overall reach of the coverage area with less power.
So if you use an 8W bulb for 4 hours a day, the additional power for the wifi adds 30%, making it essentially a 10.5W bulb. The fewer hours you use the bulb, the higher the penalty.
 
  • #63
russ_watters said:
So if you use an 8W bulb for 4 hours a day, the additional power for the wifi adds 30%, making it essentially a 10.5W bulb. The fewer hours you use the bulb, the higher the penalty.
I wll trust your math implicitly. :) There are other aspects to consider, such as, these bulbs don't generate enough heat for you to feel by touch. That means lighting is also economic with air conditioning. I'm waiting for an inconspicuous combo motion/infrared detector to save energy by turning basic lighting on/off by occupancy. I'm thinking that the cool temp and low standby consumption offer more possibilities for savings.

Heck, I'll admit that I power up lights just for the color ambience. But I can turn lights on/off without getting up - I keep the iPad 'in reach' on the end table with theater remote, and my droid tablet on the nightstand next to bed.

Some features save power. Others maybe don't (they're just too damn convenient or whiz-bang to not enjoy!)

And then there's the programming potential for conveniences - like flashing a lamp where you are when an email arrives. Even an email from a specific address and/or specific words in the content. How much could being alerted to an important email be worth, while you get to enjoy whatever you'd like to be doing? :w There's a lot of support growing for open IFTTT (IF This, Then That) so imagination can do new things that just weren't possible before. That's how/why I'm expecting LEDs in lighting to revolutionize where and how we use lights.
 
  • #64
collinsmark said:
I am not saying "what would happen" if transistors could not exist, or what would have happened if transistors were not invented circa 1947.

Yes, you are, just in the next sentence. Slapping a "not" on your statement does not change its nature in this respect.

collinsmark said:
I am ignoring it because that is speculating about alternative timelines. I don't know what would have happened in the last 60 years if the transistor had not been invented any more than what would have happened if the Nazis had won World War II. Physics Forums is not the place for such speculations.

You started a speculation about an alternative timeline and made statements without any factual basis. It is about time that you admitted that and moved on. Ignoring facts, and saying that it is the PF rules or practices that make you very selective about what facts you accept or ignore in your fantasies just make them more ridiculous. Sorry if that sounds rude, but that is how I see it. I am not going to continue this discussion, just think about this.
 
  • #65
Coming back to the topic, just yesterday when shopping at a local supermarket, I remembered the LED thing and bought a flashlight as a "commemorative" gift for my little daughter (she is more into gadgets than dolls and other girly things :) ). The price was about 7 euro, including the three AAA batteries it runs on. It is amazing. It is brighter than any flashlight I have personally owned, much lighter, cheaper and more efficient than the brightest of them. If this is not a revolution in the illumination technology, then I do not know what is.
 
  • #66
The long story of the blue led.
 

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  • #67
voko said:
Yes, you are, just in the next sentence. Slapping a "not" on your statement does not change its nature in this respect.

Perhaps some comparative examples might clear things up.

Consider a pressurized, light water, nuclear reactor used for an electrical power generation facility. You may use whatever nuclear fuel you can practically mine and/or create (with due consideration given to natural resource limitations of our Earth and any power required to extract them) using any of today's technology, except that you cannot use uranium or any derivative of uranium byproducts (and that includes plutonium, since that is created by exposing 238U to a neutron flux. You may also not use uranium as a neutron source for the creation of your fuel). I claim with certainty that the plant will not generate a significant net power.

Consider an astronaut with a spacesuit, in space, on a spacewalk. Now tear the suit open and yank the astronaut out such that he is in space, but no longer wearing a spacesuit, and is at that point drifting in space. I claim with certainty that after that point the astronaut will not successfully recite the complete works of Shakespeare's sonnets.

Consider a modern day smartphone. Your goal is to reproduce that smartphone with the same form factor, power consumption, cost, and functionality except instead of using the several hundreds of millions (more likely billions these days) of transistors normally contained within that smartphone, you must substitute them with something else -- whatever is second best -- using only technology that is available today (no "future" technology allowed). I claim that within those form factor and power limitations, the result will fail and will not successfully connect to the network allowing you to download and display this thread.​

As of today, the next best thing to the switching transistor (probably an electromechanical switch based on nanotechnology) is still huge compared to the size of a transistor. And that would only work for the digital part of the cell phone. What about the analog portion of the phone, which includes such components as power amplifiers (PAs), low noise amplifiers (LNAs), mixers, etc? I can't even think of anything truly microscopic that you could use as a substitution. The end result wouldn't just be a slightly bigger smartphone, it would be a behemoth [comparatively speaking]. That's the second best.

That's not to say that are not any promising paradigm shifts for possible future technology. We might move transistors away from silicon to some other material such as graphene, or even molybdenite, but those still involve transistors, so you couldn't use those as a "substitute" for transistors, because those are still transistors (just not silicon based, but still are transistors).

As I've mentioned before, there is some promising work being done with carbon nanotubes, but that's not here yet. Perhaps it will prove to be a promising, practical, transistor substitute in the future, but it's not available today.

And by the way, I am not ignoring the 60 years of technological advancement since the invention of the transistor. Our society in the here and now (in this reality in which we live) has had 60 years to come up with something better. They've even had the incredible advantages of transistor based tools to aid the effort. And the second best is still a behemoth. Things might look promising for the future given some recent developments with carbon nananotubes for example, but we're not there yet.

You started a speculation about an alternative timeline and made statements without any factual basis. It is about time that you admitted that and moved on. Ignoring facts, and saying that it is the PF rules or practices that make you very selective about what facts you accept or ignore in your fantasies just make them more ridiculous. Sorry if that sounds rude, but that is how I see it. I am not going to continue this discussion, just think about this.

Please stop it. I made no speculation about an alternate timeline regarding the transistor, so stop claiming I did. I have repeated several times, that I am strictly speaking of today's technology*, in the world we live in the here and now, and having the history that today's civilization has actually gone through -- and today's people have actually lived through -- no alternate timelines are involved.

*[Edit: technically, this whole rigamarole started with discussing 20th century technology, but if you'd prefer it to be extended to today's technology as well, that's fine. It still applies, at least for the present time.]
 
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  • #68
voko said:
Coming back to the topic, just yesterday when shopping at a local supermarket, I remembered the LED thing and bought a flashlight as a "commemorative" gift for my little daughter (she is more into gadgets than dolls and other girly things :) ). The price was about 7 euro, including the three AAA batteries it runs on. It is amazing. It is brighter than any flashlight I have personally owned, much lighter, cheaper and more efficient than the brightest of them. If this is not a revolution in the illumination technology, then I do not know what is.
Yes, LED lights did revolutionize flashlights, but they are a tiny part of the total lighting market/energy use.
 
  • #69
russ_watters said:
Yes, LED lights did revolutionize flashlights, but they are a tiny part of the total lighting market/energy use.
This will change becouse it must change. LED lights today are superior in almost every technical aspect, but not in price. And their price will be dropping with time.
 
  • #70
zoki85 said:
This will change becouse it must change. LED lights today are superior in almost every technical aspect, but not in price. And their price will be dropping with time.

LED lighting is great in the correct application like recessed cans but until there is a increase from the efficacy of modern 2-by-4 T8 fixtures and other linear fluorescent lamps in large areas it will be hard for LED lights to dominate the market outside of residential. I'm not saying it won't happen but some major improvements in price and total performance must happen first.
 
  • #71
Another good, and timely, reason to give them the prize.



Does anyone still use the old "heater" type Christmas lamps? I just checked, and have one set left. From the accumulated dust, it appears I haven't used them since the white LEDs hit the market.
 
  • #72
OmCheeto said:
Another good, and timely, reason to give them the prize.



Does anyone still use the old "heater" type Christmas lamps? I just checked, and have one set left. From the accumulated dust, it appears I haven't used them since the white LEDs hit the market.


My new name for you..."Old School Om" :D
 
  • #73
That vid reminds me of Tom Waits' rendition of the song.

Ah, the good stuff.
 
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  • #74
OmCheeto said:
Does anyone still use the old "heater" type Christmas lamps? I just checked, and have one set left.
Don't worry. According to this, they're safe.

http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/images/history/edison.jpg

Image compliments of http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/history.htm
 

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