Why do clouds hold their shape in the wind?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why clouds maintain their shape in windy conditions, exploring the physical properties of clouds, their formation, and the behavior of water droplets within them. Participants examine the differences between clouds and other forms of vapor, such as smoke, and consider the implications of molecular properties and environmental factors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant wonders if clouds are dense enough to resist being torn apart by the wind, suggesting a possible connection to their shape.
  • Another participant notes that clouds are visible air moving with the wind, implying that their shape is a result of the wind's movement rather than a resistance to it.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that well-defined clouds are often growing, while wispy clouds may be more susceptible to shear forces, which can pull them apart but not cause them to dissipate completely.
  • One participant discusses the dipolar nature of water molecules, proposing that this property allows water droplets to attract each other, contributing to the cohesiveness of clouds despite their small size and the influence of wind.
  • The same participant also mentions that the visibility of clouds is due to the proximity of water droplets, which refract and reflect light, rendering the cloud opaque.
  • There is a discussion about the differences in behavior between clouds and smoke, with smoke dissipating more rapidly than clouds, potentially due to differences in droplet size and density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the factors that contribute to the shape and behavior of clouds in the wind. There is no consensus on a singular explanation, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the complexity of cloud condensation nuclei and the effects of turbulent flow in relation to cloud formation. The discussion also touches on the nuances of molecular interactions and environmental conditions affecting cloud behavior.

Echo 6 Sierra
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It's a partly cloudy day here and I was checking out the clouds as they flew by. Noticing the shapes of the clouds, I was wondering how they held their shape instead of being just a haze of water vapor when blown. When a pot of water boils the steam keeps its billowy cloud shape for a small distance and then just turns into a shapeless nothing. Is it that they are dense enough to resist being torn apart by the wind and pushed along en masse?

...the answer my friend, is...
 
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Look closer next time you get a chance. Perhaps even with binoculars. Some clouds are well-defined, but some are wispy. The ones that are well-defined are often well-defined because they are growing.

And clouds can get pulled apart by shear, but only pulled apart: Shear won't cause clouds to dissipate because the clouds ride with the wnd.
 
Interesting question. You don't find the same cohesiveness in smoke. As smoke rises it dissipates rapidly. I am not a physicist, but it is my understanding that because water molecules are dipolar, water droplets are slightly polarized and act like small magnets, attracting each other. However, droplets are small (commonly only a few tens of microns in diameter, a property largely controlled by the size of cloud condensation nuclei, which is another complex topic) and commonly too far from each other to coalesce due to that attraction. They are small enough that despite being heavier than still air, even the slightest breeze will keep them aloft. In fact, there may need to be no breeze at all, with cloud droplets suspended in Brownian motion. (This also applies to ice crystals in clouds.) It is the proximity of water droplets to each other that allows you to see clouds. As light impinges upon a cloud, it is refracted and reflected in all directions, rendering what is mostly composed of air, opaque (water droplets comprise only about a millionth of the volume of the cloud). As clouds are constantly changing shape due to wind shear, the cohesiveness is largely maintained due to the resistance of this shearing by the dipolar property of water.

As far as the pot of water is concerned, turbulent flow is created by the upwelling of steam from the pot. The steam condenses rapidly a few millimeters from the pot forming water droplets. Water droplets rapidly move upward due to the turbulent updraft. However, what seems like dissipation, may be due more to the fact that there are too few water droplets to cause opaqueness. Maybe there is just enough dissipation to cause transparency, but maybe less dissipation from the pot of boiling water than you think.

A few useful websites:
http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/droplets/clouds.htm
http://www.espere.net/Unitedkingdom/water/uk_cloudform.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(molecule )
 
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