Why do F1 cars have wide tires?

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    Friction Tires
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reasons for the wide tires used on Formula 1 cars, exploring theoretical aspects of friction, practical implications of tire design, and the relationship between tire width and performance in racing contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while friction is theoretically a function of normal force and coefficient of friction, the real-world application is more complex, particularly with materials like rubber that deform.
  • One participant suggests that wider tires provide better average coefficients of friction due to their larger surface area, despite potential drawbacks like increased wind resistance and inertia associated with wider tires.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that wider tires create more lateral force per angle of slip, which is beneficial in cornering, but may struggle with linear acceleration.
  • There is mention of a potential shift to larger 18-inch wheels in the future, although this remains speculative and tied to changes in tire suppliers.
  • Some participants express frustration over the lack of clear communication from tire engineers, indicating that much of the information available is based on conjecture.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the reasons for wide tires, with some emphasizing aesthetic considerations while others focus on performance-related factors. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the coefficient of friction is not constant and can vary with pressure and deformation, indicating that assumptions about tire performance may depend on specific conditions and definitions.

BenLi
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I was watching the Malaysian Grand Prix, when seeing the really hugely wide tires on the F1 cars got me thinking. Theoretically, friction is a function of only the normal force and the coefficient of friction. Why is it, then, that the cars would have those wide tires?
 
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BenLi said:
I was watching the Malaysian Grand Prix, when seeing the really hugely wide tires on the F1 cars got me thinking. Theoretically, friction is a function of only the normal force and the coefficient of friction. Why is it, then, that the cars would have those wide tires?

main reason == because they look.


And the coefficient is not constant, but goes down as the pressure (force/area) goes up.
So running the widest gets a better coefficient averaged across the tire/tyre.
But wind resistance, and inertia favor skinny wheels.
 
On selecting tire size, when looking for info, you can find a lot of guess work based on who knows what. Too bad tires companies and tire engineers don't talk much more.

To me, http://buildafastercar.com/node/9" is what I think explain best, in a simple way, a very complex subject.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BenLi said:
Theoretically, friction is a function of only the normal force and the coefficient of friction. Why is it, then, that the cars would have those wide tires?

The coefficient of friction is a classic example of how high school "theory" doesn't always agree with the real world.
 
Lsos said:
The coefficient of friction is a classic example of how high school "theory" doesn't always agree with the real world.

The "high school" theory of friction applies to material that do not deform like wood or steel. When there is elasticity deformation like in a rubber tire, that changes stuff.
 
Exactly.
 
The tyres are wide because wider tyres create more lateral force per angle of slip. However they are less able to cope with linear acceleration (this is why they tend to have large radiuses as that's what helps the tyre cope with linear accelration). Combines with 13inch wheels this and getting temperatre it's what gives F1 tyres their large sidewall profile.

More on this: (will have to find links to other tyre threads) Ranger Mike will hopefully see this and link in before I have to do a big search :PBasically wide tyres have wider shorter contact patches (as a rough rule of thumb for a given loado the contact partch size will not change). This gives lots of grip on the limit in corners, but gives a tyre that has little warning it's about to break traction.
 
Holmz said:
main reason == because they look.

Not. Tires are to win. Loosing doesn't look. Winning is look. Dude, you've got it backwards. Turnit around.
 
Last edited:
They are also thinking of switching to 18 inch wheels (from the 13inch) to bring the tyres more in line with sportscars. I doubt that will happen any time soon though.

It's all rumour for after bridgestone leave.
 

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