Why Do Force Constants of DCl and HCl Differ by 10 N/m?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differing force constants of HCl and DCl, specifically questioning why the values differ by 10 N/m and whether this indicates a stronger D-Cl bond compared to H-Cl. The scope includes theoretical considerations, vibrational frequency implications, and the effects of anharmonicity on molecular bonding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the force constant of HCl is 477.8 N/m and that of DCl is 487.95 N/m, questioning the significance of the 10 N/m difference.
  • Others suggest that a 2% variation might not be substantial, but acknowledge that the difference is more pronounced than for other isotopomers.
  • One participant argues that the increase in mass affects vibrational frequency rather than the force constant itself.
  • Another participant expresses surprise at the size of the difference and mentions the need to verify the numbers.
  • Some participants discuss the harmonic approximation, stating that it should not show differences in force constants, but that anharmonic terms can alter this expectation.
  • A participant challenges the initial numbers, claiming they are two orders of magnitude smaller and that the relative difference is significantly less than stated.
  • One participant provides a reference from a textbook that shows different force constants for H2 and D2, suggesting a need for citation verification.
  • Several participants explore the implications of zero-point energy and how it relates to the force constant in anharmonic potentials.
  • There is a discussion on the mathematical representation of potential energy and how mass terms are incorporated into force constants, with references to the Morse potential and its implications for anharmonicity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the force constant difference between HCl and DCl, with some questioning the validity of the initial values. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact implications of anharmonicity and the relationship between mass and force constants.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about harmonic versus anharmonic behavior, as well as the dependence on specific definitions of force constants and potential energy forms. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps in the derivation of force constants from potential energy functions.

Steven Hanna
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The force (spring) constant of HCl 477.8 N/m, and the force constant of DCl is 487.95. Why should these values differ by 10 N/m? Is a D-Cl bond somehow stronger than an H-Cl bond?
 
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Think in terms of percentages; a 2 % variation isn't that much.
 
Bystander said:
Think in terms of percentages; a 2 % variation isn't that much.
true, but the difference is more pronounced than for other isotopomers
 
Steven Hanna said:
true, but the difference is more pronounced than for other isotopomers
... for a 100 % increase in one of the masses.
 
Bystander said:
... for a 100 % increase in one of the masses.
The increase in mass shows up in the vibrational frequency, not in the force constant.

I am also a bit surprised by the size of the difference. I'll try to look at the numbers.
 
Steven Hanna said:
The force (spring) constant of HCl 477.8 N/m, and the force constant of DCl is 487.95. Why should these values differ by 10 N/m? Is a D-Cl bond somehow stronger than an H-Cl bond?

Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?

In the harmonic approximation, there should be no difference in the force constants of HCl and DCl. However, adding anharmonic terms changes things. The most straightforward explanation that I can think of is that the zero-point energy for DCl is smaller, so the energy levels sit further down in the well. For a harmonic oscillator, this doesn't make a difference because the force constant is the second derivative of the potential with respect to the coordinate: k = \frac{\partial^2V}{\partial x^2}, which is a constant (obviously) for V=kx^2. However, if the potential is anharmonic (as it is in a real molecule), ##k## is in general not constant, and so lowering the zero-point energy has the effect of changing ##k##. There are probably other higher order effects at play here as well, but the main reason is the anharmonicity of the covalent bond.
 
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Steven Hanna said:
The force (spring) constant of HCl 477.8 N/m, and the force constant of DCl is 487.95. Why should these values differ by 10 N/m? Is a D-Cl bond somehow stronger than an H-Cl bond?
I've checked the numbers, and these don't make sense. The actual force constant is 2 orders of magnitude smaller, and the relative difference between HCl and DCl is of the order of 4×10-5.
 
DrClaude said:
I've checked the numbers, and these don't make sense. The actual force constant is 2 orders of magnitude smaller, and the relative difference between HCl and DCl is of the order of 4×10-5.

These numbers are from an experimental protocol for my lab report. I can check on the actual references. In the meantime, I'll give another example that I can actually cite. The force constants of H2 (k = 510 N/m) and D2 (k = 527 N/m) differ by ca. 17 N/m. The reference for these numbers is McQuarrie, D. A. Quantum Chemistry, 2 ed.; University Science Books, Mill Valley, CA, 2008, p 221.
I've posted a page from the textbook here: http://imgur.com/TBmpHNT

TeethWhitener said:
Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?

In the harmonic approximation, there should be no difference in the force constants of HCl and DCl. However, adding anharmonic terms changes things. The most straightforward explanation that I can think of is that the zero-point energy for DCl is smaller, so the energy levels sit further down in the well. For a harmonic oscillator, this doesn't make a difference because the force constant is the second derivative of the potential with respect to the coordinate: k = \frac{\partial^2V}{\partial x^2}, which is a constant (obviously) for V=kx^2. However, if the potential is anharmonic (as it is in a real molecule), ##k## is in general not constant, and so lowering the zero-point energy has the effect of changing ##k##. There are probably other higher order effects at play here as well, but the main reason is the anharmonicity of the covalent bond.
 
I'll check my calculations again and will post them here.
 
  • #10
TeethWhitener said:
Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?

In the harmonic approximation, there should be no difference in the force constants of HCl and DCl. However, adding anharmonic terms changes things. The most straightforward explanation that I can think of is that the zero-point energy for DCl is smaller, so the energy levels sit further down in the well. For a harmonic oscillator, this doesn't make a difference because the force constant is the second derivative of the potential with respect to the coordinate: k = \frac{\partial^2V}{\partial x^2}, which is a constant (obviously) for V=kx^2. However, if the potential is anharmonic (as it is in a real molecule), ##k## is in general not constant, and so lowering the zero-point energy has the effect of changing ##k##. There are probably other higher order effects at play here as well, but the main reason is the anharmonicity of the covalent bond.
k
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I'm taking a physorg class and we're talking about isotope effects. So anyway, I understand why the ZPE of DCl is lower than that of HCl, but I'm not quite sure how anharmonicity causes k to not be constant. As I understand it, the series expansion of V(x), where x is the displacement of the bond from equilibrium, is V(x) = ∑(1/n!)(d(n)V/dx)*xn. However, these terms don't depend on the reduced mass. Since you can differentiate taylor series term-by-term, d2V/dx2 should also be independent of reduced mass too, right? Also, the equation for a Morse potential, V(x) = D[1-exp(-ax)]2 doesn't contain any mass terms (a = sqrt(k/2D)).
 
  • #11
Steven Hanna said:
k
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I'm taking a physorg class and we're talking about isotope effects. So anyway, I understand why the ZPE of DCl is lower than that of HCl, but I'm not quite sure how anharmonicity causes k to not be constant. As I understand it, the series expansion of V(x), where x is the displacement of the bond from equilibrium, is V(x) = ∑(1/n!)(d(n)V/dx)*xn. However, these terms don't depend on the reduced mass. Since you can differentiate taylor series term-by-term, d2V/dx2 should also be independent of reduced mass too, right? Also, the equation for a Morse potential, V(x) = D[1-exp(-ax)]2 doesn't contain any mass terms (a = sqrt(k/2D)).
$$k=\mu \omega^2$$
So the Morse potential does contain mass terms; they're just hidden in the force constant. Ditto for a generic potential, since even in the harmonic case, ##V(x)=\frac{1}{2}\mu \omega^2 x^2##. So for an anharmonic example, if you have ##V=\frac{1}{2}\mu \omega^2 x^2 + \varepsilon x^3##, then your force constant
$$k=\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}$$
will be ##k(x)=\mu \omega^2 + 6\varepsilon x##, both mass-dependent and non-constant.
 
  • #12
TeethWhitener said:
$$k=\mu \omega^2$$
So the Morse potential does contain mass terms; they're just hidden in the force constant. Ditto for a generic potential, since even in the harmonic case, ##V(x)=\frac{1}{2}\mu \omega^2 x^2##. So for an anharmonic example, if you have ##V=\frac{1}{2}\mu \omega^2 x^2 + \varepsilon x^3##, then your force constant
$$k=\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}$$
will be ##k(x)=\mu \omega^2 + 6\varepsilon x##, both mass-dependent and non-constant.
OK I think I get it. If I differentiate the Morse equation twice I get
dV/dx = 2D[1-exp(-ax)]*a = 2aD -2aD*exp(-2ax)
dV2/dx2 = 4a2D*exp(-2ax)=4(μω2/2D)D*exp(-2ax) = 4μω2exp[-2x*sqrt(μω2/2D)]

This final result is not simply equal to μω2, contains an additional mu term, and decreases exponentially with x, as does the restoring force of a covalent bond near the dissociation limit. Agree?
 
  • #13
Steven Hanna said:
Agree?
Sounds reasonable.
 

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