Why does signal yield increase with shorter wavelength in Raman spectroscopy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between signal yield and wavelength in Raman spectroscopy, exploring the reasons behind the observed increase in signal yield with shorter wavelengths. Participants delve into theoretical aspects, detection efficiencies, and the implications of wavelength on Raman scattering versus Rayleigh scattering.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that signal yield increases with shorter wavelengths in Raman spectroscopy, questioning the relationship between wavelength, frequency, and susceptibility.
  • Another participant claims that the Raman process does not significantly depend on wavelength, attributing the increase in signal yield to the higher quantum efficiencies of CCD detectors in the visible range.
  • Contradicting the previous claim, a participant asserts that the Raman process does depend on wavelength to the fourth power, referencing a derivation involving time-dependent perturbation theory and the interaction between charges and the electric field.
  • Further clarification is provided that Raman intensity varies with the fourth power of frequency, not wavelength, and that this can be derived from classical treatments of scattering.
  • Participants express confusion regarding the fourth power dependence and seek clarification on whether it pertains to wavelength or frequency, with references to literature suggested for further reading.
  • One participant mentions that modern Raman spectrometers measure photons per second rather than watts, indicating a difference in frequency dependence.
  • A request for references on quantized field treatment is made, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the dependence of the Raman process on wavelength, with some asserting a fourth power relationship while others challenge this notion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of this relationship and the implications for modern spectrometers.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the fourth power dependence and the differences in measurement approaches between modern Raman spectrometers and traditional methods.

Who May Find This Useful

Researchers and students interested in Raman spectroscopy, particularly those exploring the theoretical foundations and practical applications of the technique.

n0_3sc
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I read in a journal article that in raman spectroscopy "it is well
known that signal yield increases with shorter wavelength". Can anyone please explain why? I would've thought longer wavelengths = shorter frequencies = higher susceptibilities?
 
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Sorry to bring this post up again, but I found the answer to my question if anyone is interested:
Turns out the Raman process does NOT depend much on wavelength. It is the detection of the CCD's that have the highest quantum efficiencies in the visible.

Between 600nm and 1000nm there is a 60% difference in detection efficiency.
 
n0_3sc said:
Sorry to bring this post up again, but I found the answer to my question if anyone is interested:
Turns out the Raman process does NOT depend much on wavelength. It is the detection of the CCD's that have the highest quantum efficiencies in the visible.

Between 600nm and 1000nm there is a 60% difference in detection efficiency.

well the Raman process DO depent much on wavelengt (to the fourth power). And it's well understood.
The fourth power can appear through a lengthy derivation using timedependent pertubation theory, second quantization of E-field and derivation of interaction between charges and E-field. You don't wanner mess with this...
 
evidenso said:
well the Raman process DO depent much on wavelengt (to the fourth power). And it's well understood.
The fourth power can appear through a lengthy derivation using timedependent pertubation theory, second quantization of E-field and derivation of interaction between charges and E-field. You don't wanner mess with this...

Rayleigh Scattering depends on wavelength to the fourth power not Raman Scattering.
 
n0_3sc said:
Rayleigh Scattering depends on wavelength to the fourth power not Raman Scattering.

Sorry to disapoint ya.
Raman intensity DO varies with the fourth power of the observed frequency for normal Raman scattering, which, in turn, depends on laser frequency.
It can be derived from the classical treatment of scattering from an oscillating induced dipole, with the intensity expressed in watts.

Therefore, in biological Raman scattering one has to find a compromise between reduced fluorescence and reduced Raman signal by choosing bigger wavelength to obtain signals.

In the full quantum picture it appears when you combine final density of states, laser intensity and scattered intensity with the Kramer Heisenberg equation

You should note that modern Raman spectrometers,
which usually measure photons/seconds rather than watts, are governed by a
slightly different frequency dependence.
 
I'm now confused :(

Do you have any material I can refer too? In all the theory I've gone through I don't see any fourth power dependence. (haven't done QM though)

Is it:
Raman intensity varies with fourth power wavelength or,
Raman intensity varies with fourth power frequency?

Why are modern spectrometers different?
 
n0_3sc said:
I'm now confused :(

Do you have any material I can refer too? In all the theory I've gone through I don't see any fourth power dependence. (haven't done QM though)
This is a basic non QM practical guide
"Raman Spectroscopy in Chemical Analysis wiley 2000"

n0_3sc said:
Is it:
Raman intensity varies with fourth power wavelength or,
Raman intensity varies with fourth power frequency?
Raman intensity varies with fourth power of frequency
and you know that c=\lambda*frequency

n0_3sc said:
Why are modern spectrometers different?
This is explained in "Raman Spectroscopy in Chemical Analysis wiley 2000"
It's because there is a factor E=hv in difference between watts and photon/sec
 
hi, can you point me to a reference for the quantized field treatment? googling didn't help much, seems this is really a topic that not many are willing to touch.
thx in advance
 
"Atom-photon interactions" by Cohen-Tannodji for instance?
 

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