Why Does Smoke Rise? An Exploration of Physics Principles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the physics principles behind why smoke rises, focusing on the effects of temperature and pressure changes during combustion, as well as the behavior of gases in an open environment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the heating of combustion products can be treated as an almost adiabatic process, leading to a relationship between temperature and pressure.
  • Another participant questions the applicability of the pressure increase when combustion occurs in an open environment, implying that the conditions differ from those in a closed system.
  • A third participant states that the smoke rises due to being carried upward in warm air, which is less dense than the cooler air surrounding it.
  • A later reply reiterates the concern about the pressure increase, emphasizing that it may not apply to an open flame at atmospheric pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between temperature, pressure, and density in the context of smoke rising, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about adiabatic processes and ideal gas behavior, which may not fully account for the complexities of combustion in open systems.

jaumzaum
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If we consider that the heating of the products created in the combustion of paper to be an almost adiabatic process (as it's extremely fast), then
$$T^{1.4} P^{-0.4} = const. $$
If we double the temperature, we multiply the pressure by 11.3
The density of an ideal gas is
$$ \rho=PM/RT$$
If we double the temperature, the density would be multiplied by 5.7

So why would the smoke rises if it became more dense?
 
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jaumzaum said:
If we double the temperature, we multiply the pressure by 11.3
How can that be if the combustion isn't happening in an enclosure?
 
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Flame is roughly a steady state process taking place at atmospheric pressure. The smoke particles are carried upward in the warm air which rises because is is less dense than cooler room air.
 
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jaumzaum said:
we multiply the pressure by 11.3
Not if it is an open flame at atmospheric pressure
 
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