Why does the graph of y = ln(x) have an imaginary part?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter rollcast
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Graph Imaginary
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the natural logarithm function, specifically why the graph of \( y = \ln(x) \) includes an imaginary part when extended to complex numbers. Participants explore the implications of this extension and the mathematical background required to understand it.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the natural logarithm function maps positive real numbers to real numbers and questions the existence of an imaginary part for negative inputs.
  • Another participant explains that the natural logarithm can be extended to complex numbers using Euler's equation, leading to the conclusion that \( \log(-1) = \pi i \) and indicating that the logarithm is not unique in the complex plane.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the origin of the imaginary component, specifically why it involves \( \pi i \) when dealing with negative values.
  • One response references Euler's identity, suggesting it as a foundational concept for understanding the relationship between exponential and trigonometric functions.
  • A further elaboration introduces the idea of expressing a logarithm of a negative number in terms of its real and imaginary components, concluding with the formula \( \log(-a) = \log(a) + i \pi + 2k\pi \) for any integer \( k \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical principles involved, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the interpretation of the imaginary part and its derivation, particularly the role of \( \pi \) in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about participants' mathematical backgrounds are present, and the discussion does not resolve the nuances of how the imaginary part is derived or its implications fully.

rollcast
Messages
403
Reaction score
0
I was messing around with wolframalpha and tried to make this graph.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+y+=+log+x

Now I understand why the blue real part exists and has that shape but I don't understand why it has an imaginary part?

Thanks
AL
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In terms of the real numbers, the natural logarithm function maps positive reals to the reals. Given some negative real number x, there is no real number y such that ey=x (i.e., such that y=log(x).) The natural logarithm can be extended to the complex numbers via Euler's equation ex=cos(x)+i*sin(x). This leads to log(-1)=pi*i (And to a host of other values; natural log is no longer unique.)
 
Ok, but where does imaginary pi come into it?

I understand that from a bit of messing around that any value to the left of the y-axis is found by taking the natural log and adding imaginary pi, but I don't understand where imaginary pi comes from.
 
It comes from Euler's identity: [itex]e^{\pi i}+1=0[/itex].
 
I don't know what math background you have, but the key result here is
[itex]e^{ix} = \cos x + i \sin x[/itex]
If you aren't familar with that, Google for "Euler's identity"

Suppose [itex]z = \log(-a)[/itex] where [itex]a > 0[/itex]. Then [itex]e^z = -a[/itex]. Since [itex]e^x > 0[/itex] for any real value of [itex]x[/itex], [itex]z[/itex] must be complex so let [itex]z = x + iy[/itex].

Then [itex]e^{x + iy} = e^x(\cos y + i \sin y) = -a[/itex]

The imaginary part = 0, so [itex]\sin y = 0[/itex].

So [itex]\cos y = \pm 1[/itex] and to make the real parts equal we have to take [itex]\cos y = -1[/itex] and [itex]e^x = a[/itex] or [itex]x = \log a[/itex].

Putting it all together

[itex]\log(-a) = \log(a) + i \pi + 2k\pi[/itex] where [itex]k[/itex] is any integer.

The graph shows the "principal value" i.e. [itex]\log(a) + i \pi[/itex].
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K