Why Is Momentum Conserved in a Variable Mass System Like a Sand-Laden Cart?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of momentum in a variable mass system, specifically a cart losing mass as sand falls out. The original poster is trying to understand the implications of the sand exiting the cart and how it affects the momentum of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the cart's momentum and the sand's exit velocity, questioning the forces involved and the implications for momentum conservation.

Discussion Status

There are multiple interpretations being explored regarding the forces acting on the cart and the sand. Some participants suggest that no external force affects the cart's motion, while others question how the sand transitions from moving with the cart to falling vertically. The discussion is ongoing with various perspectives being shared.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the assumptions about the direction of forces and the nature of momentum in the system, particularly in relation to the vertical fall of the sand and its initial horizontal motion.

Eitan Levy
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Homework Statement


A cart with no motor moves on a plane. At t=0 it has a mass equal to m0 and some velocity. Each second sand with a mass of α comes out of the cart with a velocity of 0 in relation to the plane. What is the equation of motion of the cart?

Answer: dV/dt=αv(t)/(m0-αt)

Homework Equations


F=dP/dt

The Attempt at a Solution


Basically I can't understand why the momentum of cart is conserved. I mean, if sand comes out of it with a velocity that is different than the velocity of the cart there has to be some force involved right?

What I get is dV/dt=2αv(t)/(m0-αt), because the loss of momentum of the sand translates into some force that the cart applies on it (I believe). What am I doing wrong?
 
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Eitan Levy said:
Basically I can't understand why the momentum of cart is conserved. I mean, if sand comes out of it with a velocity that is different than the velocity of the cart there has to be some force involved right?

No force will affect the motion of the cart because the sand particles fall vertically downwards while the cart moves in a horizontal direction. Thus, there is no force which affects the linear momentum of the cart.
 
Adhruth Ganesh said:
No force will affect the motion of the cart because the sand particles fall vertically downwards while the cart moves in a horizontal direction. Thus, there is no force which affects the linear momentum of the cart.
But what causes the sand to suddenly lose its momentum?
 
There is an internal force in the sand-card system. However, since the sand momentum is zero, conservation of momentum in the sand-cart system therefore requires that the momentum of the cart remains the same. Note that the momentum of just the cart is actually increasing because some of that momentum was previously carried by the sand.
 
Eitan Levy said:
But what causes the sand to suddenly lose its momentum?
The problem says that it does. If you wish, you can imagine a gremlin standing on the cart and carefully throwing grains of sand rearward just hard enough so that they become motionless with respect to the ground beneath.
 
Adhruth Ganesh said:
No force will affect the motion of the cart because the sand particles fall vertically downwards
How did the sand go from moving at the same velocity as the cart to falling vertically (in the rest frame)?
 

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