Velocity of a cart moving in the rain as a function of time

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a cart moving in the rain, focusing on how the mass of the cart changes over time due to water accumulation and its effect on velocity. The subject area includes concepts from mechanics, specifically conservation of momentum and variable mass systems.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore different methods to derive the velocity of the cart as a function of time, including conservation of momentum and differential equations. Some express confusion over the application of these methods and question the validity of their results.

Discussion Status

There are multiple approaches being discussed, with some participants suggesting simpler methods while others are attempting to derive results through more complex equations. Questions about the correctness of derived equations and the application of formulas indicate an ongoing exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies between their calculations and provided solutions, leading to discussions about assumptions and the setup of the problem. There is mention of potential mistakes in the application of formulas and the interpretation of variables.

Hamiltonian
Messages
296
Reaction score
193
Homework Statement
A cart of mass ##M_0## is moving with a velocity ##v_0##. At t = 0. water starts pouring on the cart from the container above the cart at the rate ##\lambda##kg/sec. Find the velocity of the cart as a function of time.
Relevant Equations
-
At time t = 0, the mass of the cart is ##M_0## and velocity is ##v_0## in a time interval ##dt## let a mass of ##dm## be added to the cart due to the pouring water and let the reduction in speed be ##dv##
##\lambda = dm/dt##

applying conservation of momentum from the ground frame gives $$M_0 v_0 = (M_0 + dm)(v_0 - dv)$$
however on substituting ##dm## in terms of ##\lambda## and ##dt## gives a differential equation that I am unable to solve. :oldconfused:

In class we were given a formula $$ F_{thrust} = v_{relative} \frac{dm}{dt}$$
we derived this formula to give the thrust of a rocket(but it can be used for any variable mass system with a few tweaks)

using this formula here gives $$\lambda (-v) = (M_0 + \lambda t)(dv/dt)$$
solving this equation yields the correct answer(##v = \frac{M_0 v_0}{M_0 + \lambda t}##). Instead of blindly applying the above-stated formula on the given problem I tried to derive it in the process of solving the problem but I am ending up with a rather weird-looking equation.

I also figured out a much simpler method that does not require any calculus its simple directly applying the conservation of momentum $$M_0 v_0 = (M_0 + \lambda t)v$$ which gives the correct answer but I want to know why the first method I am trying to use isn't working.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
is ##v_0 e^{\frac{-\lambda}{m}t} = \frac {mv_0}{m+\lambda t}##? (or is there a mistake in the answer I have stated above)
also shouldn't the equation for the thrust exeretd by the water be $$v_{rel,x}\frac{dm}{dt} = (m + \lambda t)\frac{dv}{dt}$$
also, your first method makes a lot of sense but the answer isn't matching with the solution?
 
Hamiltonian299792458 said:
using this formula here gives $$\lambda (-v) = (M_0 + \lambda t)(dv/dt)$$
solving this equation yields the correct answer(##v = \frac{M_0 v_0}{M_0 + \lambda t}##).

I also figured out a much simpler method that does not require any calculus its simply directly applying the conservation of momentum $$M_0 v_0 = (M_0 + \lambda t)v$$ which gives the correct answer but I want to know why the first method I am trying to use isn't working.
so is ##v = \frac{M_0 v_0}{M_0 + \lambda t}## wrong?(because that's what's given in the solutions)
I took sample values to see if ##v_0 e^{\frac{-\lambda}{m}t} = \frac {mv_0}{m+\lambda t}## and they arent equalo0)
also I understood @etotheipi method but I still don't see what is wrong with my second and third method(mentioned above).
 
etotheipi said:
Clear the ##mv## from both sides and you get $$mdv = - \lambda v dt \implies \int \frac{dv}{v} = - \int \frac{\lambda}{m} dt \implies v = v_0e^{-\frac{\lambda}{m} t}$$
Whoa! m=m(t)=M0+λt:
##\int \frac{\lambda}{m} dt=\int \frac{\lambda}{M_0+\lambda t} dt##
##\Delta \ln(v)=-\Delta \ln(M_0+\lambda t)##
##v=\frac{M_0v_0}{M_0+\lambda t}##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Leo Liu, etotheipi and Hamiltonian
Arghhh I think my brain switched off... I'm going to delete my stuff now
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
8K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K