Why is Number-Flux Four-Vector Frame-Independent?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of the number-flux four-vector in the context of relativity, specifically addressing why it is considered frame-independent. Participants explore the implications of this concept within the framework of general relativity and its relation to Galilean physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that all four-vectors are frame independent by construction, suggesting that the number-flux four-vector inherits this property.
  • One participant emphasizes the need to understand that the expression ##\vec N = n\vec U## represents a meaningful quantity regardless of the frame, and that the transformation properties of ##U^a## account for the expected behavior of the flux density.
  • Another participant points out that while the four-velocity is an invariant geometric object, its components remain frame dependent, indicating that number density is also frame dependent in relativity.
  • There is a mention of defining intrinsic quantities in the local rest frame of a fluid, which are scalar, and this is compared to thermodynamic quantities like temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the frame dependence of number density and the implications for the number-flux four-vector. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of frame independence and the nature of four-vectors are not fully explored, leading to potential gaps in understanding the implications of these concepts in different frames.

GR191511
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Recently I started studying 《A First Course in General Relativity》 and I came across a question in my book:
##\vec N =n\vec U##where n is number density,U is four-velocity,N is number-flux four-vector .The following sentence confused me:
In Galilean physics,number density was a scalar,the same in all frames(no Lorentz contraction),while flux was quite another thing:a three-vector that was frame dependent,since the velocities of particles are a frame-dependent notion.Our relativistic approach has unified these two notions into a single,frame-independent four-vector...
I wonder Why the number-flux four-vector is frame-independent?
 
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All four-vectos are frame independent

You should read page 88 (in the second edition) where it is explained what 'frame independent' means in this case
 
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GR191511 said:
I wonder Why the number-flux four-vector is frame-independent?
Because it's a four vector. They're frame independent by construction.

I think what you need to do is convince yourself that ##nU^a## actually represents something meaningful, and that it represents something meaningful whether ##U^a## is parallel to your frame's timelike axis or not. The usual way to go about it is to imagine a very large number of particles each with velocity ##U^a##. Then convince yourself that the number of particles crossing an infinitesimal plane depends on the number density ##n## and the velocity field ##U^a##, then convince yourself that the transformation properties of ##U^a## supply the right factors of ##\gamma## so that the transformed flux density behaves as you expect.
 
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The components of the 4-velocity are still frame dependent even if the 4-velocity itself is an invariant geometric object. This means that also the number density itself is frame dependent in relativity (##n## is the number density in the rest frame and is a scalar) just as the flux, which is number density times velocity just as in Galilean spacetime.
 
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Yes, and that's why one defines (!) such medium-related "intrinsic" quantities in the local rest frame(s) of the fluid and thus becoming a scalar. That holds also for thermodynamic quantities like temperature or chemical potential.
 
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