Why is the tension force equal to friction force

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a 1.0 kg block tied to a wall with a rope, resting on top of a 2.0 kg block that is being pulled to the right with a tension force. The context includes concepts of tension, friction, and forces acting on the blocks, with a coefficient of kinetic friction provided.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between tension and friction forces, questioning why they might be equal and the conditions under which this occurs. There are attempts to clarify the direction of the friction force acting on the blocks and its implications for equilibrium.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants raising questions about the directions of forces and the calculations involved. Some participants have identified potential misunderstandings regarding the forces acting on the blocks, while others are exploring the implications of these forces on the system's equilibrium.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a missing figure that is crucial for understanding the problem setup. Additionally, there are conflicting interpretations regarding the direction of the friction force and the calculations of normal force, which are being examined in the context of the problem.

mooguy
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Homework Statement


The 1.0 kg block in the figure is tied to the wall with a rope. It sits on top of the 2.0 kg block. The lower block is pulled to the right with a tension force of 20 N. The coefficient of kinetic friction at both the lower and upper surfaces of the 2.0 kg block is μk = 0.300.

What is the tension in the rope holding the 1.0 kg block to the wall?

Homework Equations


f=ma
F(friction force) = μ*m*g

The Attempt at a Solution



Here is the full diagram
knight_Figure_08_27.jpg
[/B]
I drew out a force body diagram that looks like this for just the first block(I think this is right)
kPKWJsX.png

Although I'm still confused as to why is it that the tension force and the friction force are the same. I thought tension and friction are completely different forces and how do I know when to associate forces to tension
 
Last edited:
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Where is the figure that is mentioned in the statement? Anyway the normal force mg is not correctly calculated. You should check the direction of the forces think in your block where is it pulled from?
 
What direction is the friction force acting on the 1 kg block? (a) in the same direction that the 2 kg block is moving (b) in the opposite direction that the 2 kg block is moving?
 
Chestermiller said:
What direction is the friction force acting on the 1 kg block? (a) in the same direction that the 2 kg block is moving (b) in the opposite direction that the 2 kg block is moving?
Friction should be acting in the opposite direction that the 2kg block is moving.
 
Diegor said:
Where is the figure that is mentioned in the statement? Anyway the normal force mg is not correctly calculated. You should check the direction of the forces think in your block where is it pulled from?

The diagram I drew was just of the 1kg block. the force of gravity pulling down on the 1kg block should just be 1*9.8. the 1kg block should be pulled from the left, since that rope from tied to it and the friction force should be the only thing pulling it back while the 2kg block is being pulled forward.
 
mooguy said:
Friction should be acting in the opposite direction that the 2kg block is moving.
Wrong
 
Ok in your diagram I see 1N as normal force is that the result from 1kg x9,8 m/s2? If both forces tension and friction are in the same direction would it be possible for the block to stay in equilibrium?
 
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mooguy said:
The diagram I drew was just of the 1kg block. the force of gravity pulling down on the 1kg block should just be 1*9.8. the 1kg block should be pulled from the left, since that rope from tied to it and the friction force should be the only thing pulling it back while the 2kg block is being pulled forward.
If the only vertical force is gravity, shouldn't the block fall?
 
Diegor said:
Ok in your diagram I see 1N as normal force is that the result from 1kg x9,8 m/s2? If both forces tension and friction are in the same direction would it be possible for the block to stay in equilibrium?

Ohh I see the mistake. Aahh ok. No it would not be possible for the block to stay in stay in equilibrium if tension and friction are in the same direction. That's where I think I went wrong. I was confusing the directions of friction. So if we say that motion to the left is negative and motion to the right is positive, then T=-F(Friction) for the 1KG block?
 
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mooguy said:
Ohh I see the mistake. Aahh ok. No it would not be possible for the block to stay in stay in equilibrium if tension and friction are in the same direction. That's where I think I went wrong. I was confusing the directions of friction. So if we say that motion to the left is negative and motion to the right is positive, then T=-F(Friction) for the 1KG block?
There really isn't any motion in either direction for the 1kg block. But you now do have the correct directions for the forces.
 
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