Why is there a delay of about 10 milliseconds of vocals in L or R?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of a 10-millisecond delay in vocal audio within stereo outputs, exploring its purpose and effects on sound perception. Participants examine the implications of this delay in both headphone and speaker contexts, as well as its role in music production techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of a 10-millisecond delay, noting that the physical distance between human ears does not typically allow for such delays to be perceived in natural sound environments.
  • Others suggest that the delay is a technique used in music production to create a sense of space and depth in audio, simulating a three-dimensional sound experience.
  • A participant mentions that the delay can make sounds appear "thicker" or "wider," potentially masking imperfections in the audio.
  • There is a discussion about the effectiveness of this technique depending on whether headphones or speakers are used, with some arguing that the spatial effects are diminished when using speakers due to undefined sound geometry.
  • Several participants reference external resources and papers that discuss spatial enhancement techniques and their applications in audio technology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the purpose and effectiveness of the 10-millisecond delay, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree on its use in music production, while others remain skeptical about its necessity and effectiveness in different listening contexts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes varying assumptions about audio perception and the physical properties of sound, as well as the context in which the delay is applied (headphones vs. speakers). There are references to external links that provide additional information but do not resolve the ongoing questions raised.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in audio engineering, music production techniques, and sound design may find the discussion relevant, particularly those exploring spatial audio effects and their applications in various listening environments.

tarekatpf
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Why is there a delay of about 10 milliseconds of vocals in one of the stereo outputs?

I heard, this is supposed to give you a sense of space. But our ears are just less than 1 foot apart, and it takes sound about 1 millisecond to travel 1 feet in air. Since our ears are not 10 feet apart, we never perceive the same sound in one ear more than 1 millisecond later than the other. So, what's the point in putting so long delays?
 
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You mean SciFi vocals, or Fantasy vocals?
 
Borek said:
You mean SciFi vocals, or Fantasy vocals?

Oh, sorry. I thought this category is for ''SciFi & fantasy movies, TV, books, comics, art, games and culture!'' So I thought I might put question on music as well. Now I get that even the ''TV, books, comics, art, games and culture'' questions have to be based on sci-fi and fantasy stuff.

Is there a way I can move this thread in a different category?
 
I would think 1 foot apart only works if you're wearing headphones. If it's designed for speakers, it's really more of a guess. And they're also assuming you're directly in the middle of the speakers, probably.
 
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Honestly, no idea what category it is going to fit. Mostly because I have no idea what the question is about. I mean - I have never heard about the delay being added. But if it is, it just moves perceived source of the sound.
 
It's a technique to make sound more real by simulating it as it would be in 3D. There's a demo that uses the algorithm with a clip of someone cutting your hair and it sounds/feels like the scissors are actually moving around your head.
 
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Without using headphones though, I don't think it works near as well, you can't guess the position of everyone in the room or their distance from the speaker, making the geometry rather undefined. The haircut one I listened to with headphones was unsettling. I was scared my ear was going to get snipped.
 
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tarekatpf said:
Is there a way I can move this thread in a different category?

I've moved this to the general "Computing & Technology" forum, because we sometimes have questions about audio/video systems and technology there.
 
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It's a fairly standard music production "trick". See the "chorus" section in
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/01/14/all-mixed-up-delay-is-a-mixers-best-friend-by-jamey-staub/ for example.

It doesn't have to correspond to anything physically "real", so long as it fools your brain into hearing what the record producer wants you to hear.
 
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Pythagorean said:
I would think 1 foot apart only works if you're wearing headphones. If it's designed for speakers, it's really more of a guess. And they're also assuming you're directly in the middle of the speakers, probably.

Thank you very much. Yes, I didn't think about speakers actually. But the same sound reaching one ear, even when you're listening to music with speakers, at a delay of about 10-30 ms never happens in reality.

Somebody told me that it's intended to make the sounds sound ''thicker'' or ''wider'' or whatever. And another said, it helps the ''imperfect'' sounds sound less so.

jtbell said:
I've moved this to the general "Computing & Technology" forum, because we sometimes have questions about audio/video systems and technology there.

Thank you very much for the correction.

AlephZero said:
It's a fairly standard music production "trick". See the "chorus" section in
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/01/14/all-mixed-up-delay-is-a-mixers-best-friend-by-jamey-staub/ for example.

It doesn't have to correspond to anything physically "real", so long as it fools your brain into hearing what the record producer wants you to hear.

Thank you very much. That link was very helpful.
 
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  • #11
You perceive the 10ms delayed speaker as being 10ft further away, increasing the perceived sound stage.

Spatial Enhancement is a hot audio processing topic, especially given all the Home Theatre systems out there now. For example, TI has chips for it:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slyb185a/slyb185a.pdf

Here is a pretty involved paper regarding a spatial enhancement technique:
http://www.academia.edu/1029860/Spatial_enhancement_for_immersive_stereo_audio_applications
 
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  • #12
meBigGuy said:
You perceive the 10ms delayed speaker as being 10ft further away, increasing the perceived sound stage.

Spatial Enhancement is a hot audio processing topic, especially given all the Home Theatre systems out there now. For example, TI has chips for it:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slyb185a/slyb185a.pdf

Here is a pretty involved paper regarding a spatial enhancement technique:
http://www.academia.edu/1029860/Spatial_enhancement_for_immersive_stereo_audio_applications

Thank you very much. Those links were very helpful.
 
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