Why is there no work done on gas from Q to R?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the work done on a gas during a thermodynamic process, specifically between points Q and R on a pressure-volume graph. Participants are exploring the relationship between pressure, volume, and work, as well as the implications of graph interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants express confusion about why no work is done on the gas from Q to R despite an increase in pressure. They question the definition of work in terms of pressure and volume, and the significance of the area under the graph.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided explanations regarding the relationship between pressure, volume, and work, including the concept of work being represented as the area under the curve on a P(V) graph. However, there remains confusion about the conditions under which work is done and the implications of constant pressure.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the definitions and assumptions related to work done by gases, particularly in the context of a P(V) graph versus a V(P) graph, and the implications of volume changes during the process.

toforfiltum
Messages
341
Reaction score
4

Homework Statement


upload_2016-3-27_14-9-14.png

upload_2016-3-27_14-9-30.png
[/B]

Homework Equations


U = Q + W

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't understand why there is no work done on gas from Q to R. I thought that work done on gas = pv?
If so, then why there is no work done on gas because there is increase in pressure?

So, I tried to find a reason, and I thought that work done should be the area under the graph, because it is a volume against pressure graph. In this case, then there shouldn't be any work done from P to Q too because the change is a straight line. But there is. There is a work done of +240J.

Can someone explain to me where I'm wrong? Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
toforfiltum said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 98047
View attachment 98048[/B]

Homework Equations


U = Q + W

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't understand why there is no work done on gas from Q to R. I thought that work done on gas = pv?
If so, then why there is no work done on gas because there is increase in pressure?

So, I tried to find a reason, and I thought that work done should be the area under the graph, because it is a volume against pressure graph. In this case, then there shouldn't be any work done from P to Q too because the change is a straight line. But there is. There is a work done of +240J.

Can someone explain to me where I'm wrong? Thanks
Look at the axes. The horizontal one is the pressure, the vertical on is volume. You can imagine that the gas is confined in a cylinder equipped with a movable piston. The gas exerts force on the piston, and does work if the piston moves. If the piston moves, the volume of the gas changes. Does the volume change from Q to R? Is work done without displacement of the piston?
The work is the area under a P(V) curve. But the curve in the figure is V(P).
From P to Q, the volume changes from 8*10-4 m3 to 2*10-4 m3 while the pressure stays the same, 4*105 Pa. The work done by the gas is W=PΔV, negative, as the volume decreases. The work done on the gas is 240 J.
 
ehild said:
Look at the axes. The horizontal one is the pressure, the vertical on is volume. You can imagine that the gas is confined in a cylinder equipped with a movable piston. The gas exerts force on the piston, and does work if the piston moves. If the piston moves, the volume of the gas changes. Does the volume change from Q to R? Is work done without displacement of the piston?
The work is the area under a P(V) curve. But the curve in the figure is V(P).
From P to Q, the volume changes from 8*10-4 m3 to 2*10-4 m3 while the pressure stays the same, 4*105 Pa. The work done by the gas is W=PΔV, negative, as the volume decreases. The work done on the gas is 240 J.
Thanks. But I'm still confused. Why is work done by a gas the area under a P(V) curve? Why must pressure be constant? And how can it be, since ## P ∝ 1/V ## ?
 
You should know that the work of the force F(x) during the displacement from x1 to x2 is ##W=\int _{x1}^{x2}{F(x) dx}## The definite integral is defined so as it gives the area of the F(x) curve between x1 and x2,
The force exerted by the gas on the piston of area A is PA. (P is the pressure). If the piston moves by dx, the elementary work is dW=P(Adx), but Adx is the change of volume dV= Adx, so the elementary work done by the gas is dW=PdV. The entire work when the volume of the gas changes from V1 to V2 is the integral W=##\int _{V1}^{V2}{PdV}##, the area under the P(V) curve between V1 and V2.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
7K