Why Is U(n) Considered Connected When O(n) Is Not?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter gentsagree
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Groups Lie groups
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of connectedness in the context of the orthogonal group O(n) and the unitary group U(n). Participants explore why U(n) is considered connected while O(n) is not, examining the implications of the determinant and the structure of these groups.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that O(n) is not connected because it has two subsets based on the determinant: those with detO=1 and detO=-1, with SO(n) being the maximally connected component.
  • Another participant points out that U(n) consists of complex matrices with determinants that can take any value on the unit circle, suggesting that this contributes to its connectedness.
  • A reference to C. Chevalley's "Theory of Lie groups" is made, indicating that there may be formal results that clarify the situation.
  • One participant emphasizes that connectedness is a property of topological spaces and critiques the framing of the argument regarding the connected components of O(n) and U(n).
  • Concerns are raised about the use of terminology and the implications of statements regarding the connected components of these groups, particularly the uniqueness of the maximally connected component.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the connectedness of O(n) and U(n), with no consensus reached on the implications of the determinant or the definitions of connected components.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the definitions and properties of topological spaces in relation to group theory, noting that the discussion hinges on the interpretation of connected components and the role of the determinant.

gentsagree
Messages
93
Reaction score
1
I surely am missing something about the notion of connectedness, and I clarify this by means of an example:

O(n), the orthogonal group, has two subsets with detO=1 and detO=-1. Now, the maximally connected component of O(n) is SO(n), which is the subgroup with detO=1 including the Identity, while the other part is simply a coset (and not a subgroup, as it doesn't, of course, contain I).
Thus, O(n) is NOT a connected group.

I do not understand why, on the other hand, U(n) is said to be connected when it has got, in exactly the same way as O(n), two subsets with detU=1 and detU=-1, where we call the former SU(n).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
U(n) is a group of complex matrices, so has matrices A with det(A) = z for any complex number |z|=1 (which you will note is a connected set, namely a circle). This doesn't prove the set is connected by itself but does resolve the issue of the determinant.
 
Check out C. Chevalley's "Theory of Lie groups", Proposition 3, Page 37.
 
You are focussing on words rather than the meaning of words. I suggest you first try to understand how the facts you state imply that O(n) is not connected.

* connectedness is a property of a topological space, not of a group or a set
* O(n) is partitioned into the 1 and -1 fibers of the determinant, while U(n) is not

Anyway, the key to your 'argument' is
the maximally connected component of O(n) is SO(n)
First, it seems to contain a tautology: in my vocabulary a connected component is a maximal connected subset.
Second, do you understand your use of 'the'? It either means 'unique up to homeomorphism', or you forgot to include 'of the identity'. Third, the following statement obtained by substituting words is false:
the maximally connected component of U(n) is SU(n)
so you need to understand why it is true for O(n) in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
3K
  • Poll Poll
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
7K