Why Isn't the Second Term Included in the Derivative of Cross Products?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of cross products, specifically the derivative of the expression d/dt [ r(t) X r'(t)]. Participants explore the application of the product rule for derivatives in the context of vector calculus and seek clarification on why certain terms may not be included in the final result.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the application of the derivative rule for cross products, leading to incorrect answers.
  • Another participant questions the result of the cross product of a vector with itself, prompting a discussion on its implications.
  • There is a suggestion that the magnitude of the cross product of two identical vectors is zero, which is confirmed by a later participant.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding the expression involving the derivatives of the vectors and their cross products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct application of the derivative rule for cross products, and there is ongoing debate about the implications of the cross product of a vector with itself.

Contextual Notes

Some participants appear to have varying levels of understanding of vector calculus, which may affect the clarity of the discussion. The reasoning behind the exclusion of certain terms in the derivative is not fully resolved.

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Okay, so I am having trouble with this concept (i actually didnt think i was until i realized i was getting all the wrong answers)...
As an example, if you want to take the derivative of:

d/dt [ r(t) X r'(t)]

I just used the general rule of d/dt [r1(t) X r2(t)] = r1(t)Xr2'(t) + r1'(t)Xr2(t)

I ***thought**** I was doing the problem correctly but apparently not.

I just did the following by using the generic equation above:
d/dt [ r(t) X r'(t)] = r(t)Xr''(t) + r'(t)Xr'(t)

What is wrong with what I did? At the back of my book it says the answer is r(t) Xr''(t) which is the first part of my answer (but doesn't include the second portion). Can someone explain where I'm wrong? I'd really appreciate it.
 
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For any vector [itex]\vec a[/itex], what is [itex]\vec a \times \vec a[/itex]?
 
the cross product?? the determinant of the components?

Sorry I'm really shaky on vector calculus...
 
There is no vector calculus here. I asked what is [itex]\vec a \times \vec a[/itex]. Hint: The answer is the same for all vectors.

Step back: What is the magnitude of the cross product of two vectors [itex]\vec a[/itex] and [itex]\vec b[/itex]? What does that become when you set [itex]\vec b = \vec a[/itex]?
 
a^2 ? so how does that help solve the problem?
 
okay um nevermind i mean 0!
 
Excellent. So now, what is

[tex]\vec r(t) \times \vec r\;^{\prime\prime}(t) + \vec r\;^\prime(t) \times \vec r\;^\prime(t)[/tex] ?
 

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