Why Photon Mass is Zero: Proving it with Relativity Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of why the rest mass of a photon is considered to be zero and how this can be demonstrated using the relativistic mass formula. Participants explore theoretical implications, experimental evidence, and the limitations of analytical methods in proving this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how the rest mass of a photon can be proven to be zero using the formula m=m'/√(1-v^2/c^2).
  • Others argue that analytical methods cannot prove the mass of a photon and suggest referring to the FAQ subforum for guidance.
  • It is noted that if a photon's mass were nonzero, it would lead to infinite energy, which is deemed nonsensical.
  • Some participants emphasize that the mass of the photon can only be established through experimental verification, citing specific studies as references.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of a nonzero mass for a photon, including the assertion that it would not travel at the speed of light.
  • One participant challenges the idea that the inability to divide by zero proves that photons must have a nonzero mass, arguing that this leads to contradictions.
  • Another point raised is that the speed of a photon being c is not definitively known, suggesting that only lower limits can be established based on energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods of proving the mass of a photon, with some asserting the impossibility of analytical proof while others emphasize the necessity of experimental evidence. No consensus is reached regarding the implications of a nonzero mass for a photon.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of mass and speed, as well as the unresolved nature of certain mathematical implications regarding the mass-energy relationship in relativity.

umair20
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why rest mass of photon is zero? how to prove it by m=m'/√(1-v^2/c^2)?
 
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You cannot prove something like this via analytical methods. Please read the FAQ subforum in the Relativity forum.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
You cannot prove something like this via analytical methods. Please read the FAQ subforum in the Relativity forum.

Zz.

REad about Photon!
 
umair20 said:
why rest mass of photon is zero? how to prove it by m=m'/√(1-v^2/c^2)?

How would you prove the mass of the electron with that formula? You can't. Elementary particle masses are experimentally verified, not proved.
 
moatasim23 said:
REad about Photon!

Which part of the photon did you want me to read?

Zz.
 
umair20 said:
why rest mass of photon is zero? how to prove it by m=m'/√(1-v^2/c^2)?
In addition to the other answers, if photon's mass were different than zero, it should be infinite (according to the formula you have written) because v = c for a photon; its energy would be infinite too. Clearly that is a nonsense.
 
lightarrow said:
In addition to the other answers, if photon's mass were different than zero, it should be infinite (according to the formula you have written) because v = c for a photon; its energy would be infinite too. Clearly that is a nonsense.

If the photon's mass is nonzero, then it doesn't have v=c.

The mass of the photon can only be established experimentally.

R.S. Lakes, "Experimental limits on the photon mass and cosmic magnetic vector potential", Physical Review Letters , 1998, 80, 1826-1829 http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/mu.html

Luo et al., “New Experimental Limit on the Photon Rest Mass with a Rotating Torsion Balance”, Phys. Rev. Lett, 90, no. 8, 081801 (2003)

Zz, I'd suggest adding these two references to the FAQ entry.
 
bcrowell said:
If the photon's mass is nonzero, then it doesn't have v=c.
The mass of the photon can only be established experimentally.
Of course. But the answer one can give, can also depend on the level of answer the OP was looking for: starting from the fact that a photon's speed is c, then a photon's mass different than zero generate an impossible situation.
 
Just because you cannot divide by zero does not prove that photons must possesses a nonzero mass. Einstein's ideas concerning mass and speed are not just idle speculations, they have been verified through experiments. Keeping this in mind:

Since photons, by definition, travel at the speed of light, if they did possesses ANY mass their mass would have to be infinite. A particle the size of a photon with INFINITE mass would create a singularity that would consume everything it touched. Since this is clearly not the case, photons cannot have any mass.
 
  • #10
lightarrow said:
Of course. But the answer one can give, can also depend on the level of answer the OP was looking for: starting from the fact that a photon's speed is c, then a photon's mass different than zero generate an impossible situation.

The point is that we don't know that a photon's speed is c. We can only put a lower limit on its speed for a given energy.
 

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