Originally posted by Royce
BH says that the material has primacy.
Not 100% accurate. BH says he
believes that the material is primary. It makes sense to me, judging from the examples I put forth, but I cannot prove it one way or the other and so I leave room for my ignorance.
Here I disagree as you knew I would. Reality would not exist without a mind to conceive of reality and know reality.
And here is where you and I meet our impasse, for I fail to see the sense of that statement. To me this is too much like saying you wouldn’t exist if I weren’t here to conceive of you. In fact, if every living thing on Earth died tonight, I have little doubt that tommorow the world would continue along its merry way.
But, beyond that I think the mind, God's mind created and maintains the universe and is the ultimate reality. This is the spiritual realm.
That
daaarlin MIND
For me, there
is no beyond that. Your call for a god is premature.
The reason, or one of the reasons the universe was created is to support life which entails consciousness and the development of a conscious, self aware, intelligent, physical, mental, and spititual being of which we are one, maybe, but I doubt it, the only one.
And now you go beyond a mere belief that the universe wouldn’t exist if god hadn’t created it, into telling me that you actually have knowledge of why the universe was created. I find this to be absolutely fantastic. Simply incredible, I’m speechless.
First the spirit, then the mind, and next the material. The trinity of reality, all aspects of the one true reality, God.
*still speechless*
This I know is where we differ, To you BH and Zero the material has primacy and the spiritual doesn't exist. I can only say that so long as you keep your sight and mind limited to only the material that is all that you will ever see and know in this life.
I would say to you that a god capable of creating a universe is more than powerful enough to make its existence felt by me,
had it the mind to, yet it has never happened, why? (don’t answer, I’ll do it in a minute)
I ask only that you look before you say you see no evidence of anything other than material. When one lives in a dungeon and never leaves or looks outside the dungeon, the dungeon is all that exists to him.
The god concepts come from the true dungeon, located inside the cranium. Peering into this abyss, one’s imagination is likely to get the better of them.
Why do you want to limit yourself and your view of reality so?
This is the standard response of the idealists; others who cannot see their vision are limited and lacking, groping in darkness. This is really the ultimate insult, and the one idealists fail to see themselves making time and time again, even all the while complaining of poor treatment and lack of respect at the hands of so-called materialists.
Nevertheless, outside the confines of my mental dungeon I see the sun, feel its warmth, gaze at beautiful scenery, and hold an appreciative feeling for my existence. It would matter no more or less to me to know that a god/s created it, for I could appreciate it no more than I currently do. So why really, would you want me to believe as you do?