News Will Israel's Strikes Escalate to Full-Scale War?

[Anttech]

Yes I have seen some state 2 Million and I have seen some state 7 million. Actually since America was founded on religious freedom and the way it does its census it is impossible to know.

Belgium has never imported any Indonesians, some may have migrated but they didnt ask them to come. I doubt you will admit you total lack of knowledge about Europe but anyway.

Blair is not doing well since the Iraq war, his rating right now are the lowest he has ever had, straight after he cuddled up to the US stance on Israel's attacks on Lebanon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/10/nlab10.xml

Tony Blair, who broke all records for public approval when he entered No 10 nine years ago, is now the most unpopular Labour Prime Minister of modern times, a YouGov survey for The Daily Telegraph shows today.

Only 26 per cent of voters are satisfied with Mr Blair's performance, lower than Harold Wilson's 27 per cent rating in May 1968 after devaluation of the pound.

I know this was 2 months ago, I will find you a link that demonstrates that he is doing even worse now.

Now they are running you out of your own country, out of your (former) values. Wait another generation. Your children will be Muslims.You will be a Muslim (if you aren't one already). Keep on apologising, it might save your head when it comes to conversion.

This is absurd, and actually rather racist. Where did you read that tosh?

 

[Hans de Vries]

You have them too. And a lot more different ones. Try to get the notion of "apologist"

Googling for "Islamic apologist" pours out a long list of religious hate sites.
Not much of a surprise since it implies that Islamic people in general
have something to apologize for. You seem to have Islamo-phobia.

Rural America may have large mono-cultural area's however Silicon Valley
for example has a just as high percentage of people from Arab decent as
Western Europe. Many Pakistani engineers.

There are lots of people from Lebanon in the US as well. The number of people
from Lebanese decent in the U.S. is 450,000. The total population of Lebanon
is 3,800,000 so that's about 12%.Regards, Hans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon

 

[Bystander]

(snip)
did you stop to consider the causes of fundamentalism, or that without western influence these nutcase would not have the influence they command in the Middle East,

"Fundamentalism" has been a big part of Islam since long before modern European states were established and very long before Europeans colonized the Americas. "Western influence" has nothing to do with stimulating a "fundamentalist" movement --- NO SALE.

(snip) and (snip)

 

[clj4]

This is absurd, and actually rather racist. Where did you read that tosh?

"Now they are running you out of your own country, out of your (former) values. Wait another generation. Your children will be Muslims.You will be a Muslim (if you aren't one already). Keep on apologising, it might save your head when it comes to conversion."

Truth hurts, eh? You can see your future. Yours and all the others that pander to islam.

 

[clj4]

Googling for "Islamic apologist" pours out a long list of religious hate sites.
Not much of a surprise since it implies that Islamic people in general
have something to apologize for. You seem to have Islamo-phobia.

No, Hans

I put a mirror to the people of Europe that pander to the islamo-fascists. "Apologist" is someone who sucks up big to the islamic states and politics. You know: the govenments of Netherlands,Belgium, France, Spain, Sweden, Norway, etc, etc.

Rural America may have large mono-cultural area's however Silicon Valley
for example has a just as high percentage of people from Arab decent as
Western Europe. Many Pakistani engineers.

Yes, this is true. But US doesn't pander to islam. Old europe does, in the hope of being spared when the moment comes. It will not help, in one or two generations, the al-quaida dream of an islam empire from India to Spain will be realized.

There are lots of people from Lebanon in the US as well. The number of people
from Lebanese decent in the U.S. is 450,000. The total population of Lebanon
is 3,800,000 so that's about 12%.Regards, Hans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon

So, what is the relevance of the above? We are talking about apologists, right? The people that went along with the nazis in WWII , were rescued by US and now go along with the islamo-nazis only to find out that US will not rescue them again.
The apologists are the people that sold the jews then in the hope of getting a reprieve from the nazis, the people that are trying to selll the jews now, only to be surprised that they now have a very strong country. So they cannot be sold again. Some history repeats itself (what the old europeans are doing) some doesn't (what the americans and the israelis are doing). Your countries will be swallowed by islam, the eastern europeans will survive and so will US and Israel. Wake up!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

"Fundamentalism" has been a big part of Islam since long before modern European states were established and very long before Europeans colonized the Americas. "Western influence" has nothing to do with stimulating a "fundamentalist" movement --- NO SALE.

At least you didn't use the term strawman

What I meant was not did we cause the foundation of fundementalism but did we by our actions give them more influence than they deserve, it's impossible for a non Islamic sate or a non Muslim person to create and Islamic movement, but we can make it seem more palatable, if someone is feeling hate for a country, then someone who corrupts the faith to portray a valid justification for hate can seem more appealing.

AFAIK fundementalism only really took off in the 20th century, which is exactly when we and I mean England and others started looking towards the middle East as a means of exploitation in oil(please understand I am not drawing modern parallels here, I don't want to get into a "is gulf war II all about oil" debate, it's not relevant) I hope that clarifies my post.

Of course the UN partition plan didn't help, but that is a western deal which had no support amongst Arabs, in fact they were never asked, good or bad, Israel having a state is also irrelevant I can't change history and ask that the non secular zionists( their was a great deal of opposition to the founding of a Jewish sate in the Middle East believe it or not) That founded the movement step into a time machine and chose the US or UK as a better location, to ease tension

 

[Anttech]

So, what is the relevance of the above? We are talking about apologists, right? The people that went along with the nazis in WWII , were rescued by US and now go along with the islamo-nazis only to find out that US will not rescue them again.

Your History is almost as weak as your Geography. I especially like the "Islamo-Nazis" part, did you make that up all on your own? Honestly Europe is fine, but thanks for asking..

 

[clj4]

Man that is funny...

It is not going to be so funny when your country is enslaved. With your own contribution.

 

[clj4]

Your History is almost as weak as your Geography. I especially like the "Islamo-Nazis" part, did you make that up all on your own? Honestly Europe is fine, but thanks for asking..

And the lying and denying marches on, just like in the dawn of WWII. You sold out then to the nazis, you sell out today to the islamists. The difference will be in the ending: the americans freed you of the nazis, they'll let you rot under islam. Well deserved ending.

 

[Anttech]

So, what is the relevance of the above? We are talking about apologists, right? The people that went along with the nazis in WWII , were rescued by US and now go along with the islamo-nazis only to find out that US will not rescue them again.

No You speak in rhetoric, with no examples. You don't back up any of your statements, and seem to try and pass them up as some sort of universal Fact (My children wil be Muslims). To "put a mirror up" so to speak you have to at least know what it is you are putting a mirror up against. But it makes for some funny reading..

 

[Skyhunter]

That's a lovely sounding ideal. But an entirely ridiculous standard to try to hold a government to... and it's not even reasonable to hold individuals to such a standard.

You expect me to hold a government other than my own accountable?

What was the term you used..."entirely ridiculous."

Why equal? In what ways is Hezbollah guilty? In what ways is Israel guilty? How did you weigh all those factors against each other to determine that they should be equally guilty?

It takes two to tango.

Why does that earn the US a portion of the blame? And why is the US's portion of the blame worth bringing up over any other particular party's portion of the blame?

Iran and Syria as well almost every other nation that has become involved should accept some culpability. I mentioned the US because I am an American. As an American I will exercise my right to criticize the actions of my government until they take those rights away. Then I will criticize LOUDER!

That one's easy -- AFAIK the bombers are generally after rocket caches and rocket launchers, not guerrillas.

The end result is that civilians are bearing the brunt of the attack and Israel is losing International support.

Don't you think this sounds suspicious?

Yes. My first thought was ban bait.

 

[Anttech]

And the lying and denying marches on, just like in the dawn of WWII. You sold out then to the nazis, you sell out today to the islamists. The difference will be in the ending: the americans freed you of the nazis, they'll let you rot under islam. Well deserved ending.

Are you accusing me of lying? Would you like to point out where I was lying, or will you retract that statement?

 

[clj4]

No You speak in rhetoric, with no examples. You don't back up any of your statements, and seem to try and pass them up as some sort of universal Fact (My children wil be Muslims). To "put a mirror up" so to speak you have to at least know what it is you are putting a mirror up against. But it makes for some funny reading..

Go out in your streets, you will see the "examples".
Go ride in the trains and metros blown to pieces, mixing body parts with train parts, you will see the examples.
Need more?

 

[Anttech]

Go out in your streets, you will see the "examples".

I have just been outside, and I am fine, what's your point? I have lived in Europe all my puff, and I have lived in the Largest Cities in Europe, and I have been just fine.

Go ride in the trains and metros blown to pieces, mixing body parts with train parts, you will see the examples.
Need more?

I ride the train most day, and the metro here everyday... Honestly what are you talking about?

 

[clj4]

Are you accusing me of lying? Would you like to point out where I was lying, or will you retract that statement?

Yes, you are lying. To yourself. Because you are denying the obvious: that your world is changing around you and that your values are being overrun by your "guests". Hope that you are happy with them, report back when "Sharia" has replaced your legal system and when your church has been bought, demolished and replaced with a mosque.
Let us know how you separate body parts from train parts, body parts from cafe furniture, etc.

 

[clj4]

I have just been outside, and I am fine, what's your point? I have lived in Europe all my puff, and I have lived in the Largest Cities in Europe, and I have been just fine.
I ride the train most day, and the metro here everyday... Honestly what are you talking about?

Let us know when you learned how to separate body parts from metal parts. Maybe you need to go to school in Mumbai, London,Tel-Aviv or Madrid. Wait! If you wait long enough you can "experience" it in your home town (not that I am wishing that on you). But it will help waking you up from your apologetic state.

 

[Anttech]

At the core of Globalisation is migration, being an American you should probably be aware of that. In Europe we have quiet a Large free market, people move about quiet easy, and people come from other cultures to our lands because we have a good economy. People who believe in Islam, come here for this reason. They are not our guest, they are here to work (in the majority). Our Churches are fine thank you very much, the last one I saw get burnt down was by a devil worshipping cult in Norway (due to one of your exports, death metal music).

I am not lying, and I resent that you are asserting I am. I live in Europe, and to be honest, if YOU are a representation of the values that the USA brings to the table, then honestly, I would prefer to convert to Islam. That being said, I know that you are not.

Your rhetoric and sensationalism is really amusing, you have probably broken quiet a few Forum rules here, are you aware of the guidelines you agreed to before you stated posting?

 

[kyleb]

The apologists are the people that sold the jews...

They didn't do it alone:

As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

Additional words from the vivid imagination of this dreamer, from p. 68 of Part I of his Diary.

So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt.

...

At the Nuremberg Trials of Major War Criminals, Nazi propagandist, Julius Streicher testified: “I did no more than echo what the leading Zionists had been saying”, it is clear that he had told the truth.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

I highly recommend reading the whole article there as well as looking around the rest of the website.

 

[Anttech]

Actually I have lived in London, been to Madrid many times, and was brought up in Glasgow. I have been to Belfast on numerous occasions, but utimatly my Family is Greek. I have seen what terrorist do, CHRISTIAN terrorists, I have had a friend carved up by a UDF thug because he was wearing a Celtic football strip. You are trying to "teach or grandfather how to suck eggs" son. I have never had any problems with any Muslims I work with, I can tell you as fact they arent "taking over Europe" and "demolishing" all the churches. Yes there has been problems, with Al-qeda. But I tend not to make sweeping statements about a demographic of 1.2 Billion people. You are just going to have to accept that Islam is here to stay, if you don't and carry on the direction you are going, one day you may just turn out like that which you *hate*

 

[clj4]

At the core of Globalisation is migration, being an American you should probably be aware of that. In Europe we have quiet a Large free market, people move about quiet easy, and people come from other cultures to our lands because we have a good economy. People who believe in Islam, come here for this reason. They are not our guest, they are here to work (in the majority). Our Churches are fine thank you very much, the last one I saw get burnt down was by a devil worshipping cult in Norway (due to one of your exports, death metal music).

You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.
So maybe you should look at the pictures from Mumbai, London,Madrid,Tel-Aviv and...New York one more time.
Europe before WWII was very nice and quiet. Enjoy the "quiet" until the next bombing. Who knows, it might come in Bruxelles, Liege or whatever. This may shake you up and make you change your song.

I am not lying, and I resent that you are asserting I am. I live in Europe, and to be honest, if YOU are a representation of the values that the USA brings to the table, then honestly, I would prefer to convert to Islam.

Looks like you may have already done it.

 

[clj4]

They didn't do it alone:http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

I highly recommend reading the whole article there as well as looking around the rest of the website.

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism mixed with good old nazi propaganda. No thanks.

 

[Anttech]

LOL...

Europe before WWII was very nice and quiet. Enjoy the "quiet" until the next bombing. Who knows, it might come in Bruxelles, Liege or whatever. This may shake you up and make you change your song.

Actually just before WW2 was WW1. Were you aware of that? I wouldn't say we were "ohh so quiet" We were busy killing each other. There may or may not be a bombing in Brussels. There have already been terrorist activity in Belgium by the Vlam-Block a Neo-Nazi type outfit from Flanders (No they are NOT Muslims) who are trying to break up Belgium into Wallonia and Flanders.

 

[Anttech]

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism. No thanks.

About True Torah Jews Against Zionism

True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization formed by a group of religious Orthodox Jews dedicated to informing the world and the American public and politicians in particular, that the idealogy of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

True Torah Jews
183 Wilson Street
PMB 162
Brooklyn, NY 11211

Donations by check or money order may be mailed to the above address. Your generous support is needed and will be greatly appreciated!

Donations can be made with a credit card through PayPal.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/index.cfm

Hmmm well perhaps Arabs, as technically Israel is an Arabic state, but revisionism, care to back that up, or are you not going to bother again?

 

[Anttech]

You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.

Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

 

[clj4]

Actually I have lived in London, been to Madrid many times, and was brought up in Glasgow. I have been to Belfast on numerous occasions, but utimatly my Family is Greek. I have seen what terrorist do, CHRISTIAN terrorists, I have had a friend carved up by a UDF thug because he was wearing a Celtic football strip. You are trying to "teach or grandfather how to suck eggs" son. I have never had any problems with any Muslims I work with, I can tell you as fact they arent "taking over Europe" and "demolishing" all the churches. Yes there has been problems, with Al-qeda. But I tend not to make sweeping statements about a demographic of 1.2 Billion people. You are just going to have to accept that Islam is here to stay, if you don't and carry on the direction you are going, one day you may just turn out like that which you *hate*

The above statement is precisely what makes you an apologist.
You hope that you will be spared but it won't happen. Report back from the next bombing, tell us how you seprated body parts from cafe furniture.

 

[clj4]

Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

The people of the many european countries who either signed pacts and/or colaborated with the nazis . Do you need a history refresher? France, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.

 

[kyleb]

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism mixed with good old nazi propaganda. No thanks.

It is an Orthodox Jewish website explaining their history, some of them being people who suffered though the horrors of WW2 themselves. Beyond that the quotes are authentic and all properly soured. Please don't turn your back on the facts here:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

 

[clj4]

Hmmm well perhaps Arabs, as technically Israel is an Arabic state, but revisionism, care to back that up, or are you not going to bother again?

Hmm, what is your question? You can't recognise arab rehashes of nazi propaganda?

 

[Anttech]

Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

 

[clj4]

It is an Orthodox Jewish website explaining their history, some of them being people who suffered though the horrors of WW2 themselves. Beyond that the quotes are authentic and all properly soured. Please don't turn your back on the facts here:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

Yes, very serving to arab propaganda. Besides, your quote was by a nazi at the Nurnberg trial, Very convenient.