News Will Israel's Strikes Escalate to Full-Scale War?

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The discussion centers on escalating tensions between Israel and Hezbollah following the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, with concerns about potential wider conflict involving Iran and Syria. Israel has conducted airstrikes on Lebanese infrastructure, raising fears of a renewed war and the involvement of the Lebanese army. The role of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) is questioned, as they seem to lack a clear mandate in the current crisis. Participants express skepticism about the effectiveness of international diplomacy, particularly the U.S. response, and highlight the complex dynamics of regional politics. Overall, the situation is viewed as precarious, with the potential for significant escalation in hostilities.
  • #721
clj4 said:
Hmm, what is your question? You can't recognise arab rehashes of nazi propaganda?

I am asking you to back up your statements with some explanation (Not rhetoric) and of course some facts to back up your statements would be nice.
 
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  • #722
Schrodinger's Dog said:
(snip)What I meant was not did we cause the foundation of fundementalism but did we by our actions give them more influence than they deserve, it's impossible for a non Islamic sate or a non Muslim person to create and Islamic movement, but we can make it seem more palatable, if someone is feeling hate for a country, then someone who corrupts the faith to portray a valid justification for hate can seem more appealing. AFAIK fundementalism only really took off in the 20th century, which is exactly when we and I mean England and others started looking towards the middle East as a means of exploitation in oil(please understand I am not drawing modern parallels here, I don't want to get into a "is gulf war II all about oil" debate, it's not relevant) I hope that clarifies my post.

India, John Keay, gives a good picture of "moderate" Islam vs. "fundamentalist" Islam during the Mogul, Moghul, Muhgal, era; you might also want to look into the "Old Man in the Mountain" and his (their) "hashshashin, hashishin, assassins" --- depending on sources, they look a lot like the model bin Laden styles himself after, or you'll read that they're "apostates." Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, this, that, and the other Caliphate, and the squabbles among them all have been going on for a millennium. The point being that they've been making a colossal mess of the cultures, politics, and social structures of the area for well over a thousand years. Acknowledgment of the root of the squabbles, who's got first dibs on the collection plates, is never made by any of the parties to the squabbles; the squabbles are instead attributed to the actions of outsiders, infidels, "the Great Satan," and any other number of puerile excuses, much the same as the "fact" that no group of 8-12 year olds have ever put baseballs through neighbors' windows --- birds swooped down, grabbed the ball and dropped it, it rolled into the street and a passing truck squeezed it under a tire and it popped out like a watermelon seed, a passing biker gang grabbed it and deliberately threw it through the window --- you can as easily attribute "the rise of fundamentalism" to the rise of the "dial an excuse industry" Freud started --- they aren't fundamentalists because they're ignorant, greedy, vicious, vindictive people --- they're fundamentalists because 90% of the world's population enjoys a better standard of living without Islam, and it makes them look and feel bad about themselves --- we've destroyed their "self-esteem."
 
  • #723
Anttech said:
Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

First off learn how to write English. You claim that you lived all over Europe but you can't write: it is "corroborate' , not "collaborate".

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-aggression pacts signed with the nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).

As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborationism

Looks like both your birth country and your adopted one figure high on the list. .

Have you had enough? Do you want more?
 
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  • #724
clj4 said:
Yes, very serving to arab propaganda. Besides, your quote was by a nazi at the Nurnberg trial, Very convenient.

The first two quotes in what I sited up there were not from a Nazi, but rather from Theodor Herzl, and that is not propaganda of any sort but rather historical fact. If you want to toss the blame around about how WWII happened, let us be sure to count all the heads.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm
 
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  • #725
kyleb said:
The first two quotes in what I sited up there were not from a Nazi, but rather from Theodor Herzl, and that is not propaganda of any sort but rather historical fact. If you want to toss the blame around about how WWII happened, let us be sure to count all the heads.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

Classical revisionism: blame the victims. Your quote was from a nazi war criminal quoting Herzl.
Today, the islamo-fascists are taking pages from their nazi mentors in terms of justifying their actions (see Iran's president quotes)
Give it up, u are not fooling anyone.
 
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  • #726
clj4 said:
Your quote was from a nazi war criminal quoting Herzl.
No, the first two quotes in what I sighted above are direct from Herzl's diary. Please quit ignoring these facts:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm
 
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  • #727
In Europe there is only 3 countries that speak English, what's your point? I never said I was proud of my history, would you like to point out where I said that?

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-agression pacts signed with the Nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).
No I am too young to remember those :rolleyes: Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)
 
  • #728
clj4 said:
blame the victims.
And no I don't blame the victims at all, again that site is supported by such victims and their decedents.
 
  • #729
Anttech said:
In Europe there is only 3 countries that speak English, what's your point? I never said I was proud of my history, would you like to point out where I said that?

No I am too young to remember those :rolleyes: Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)

No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.aspOh, about pedantry : a big part of Russia IS in Europe. But you are too young to know that.

Did you see the nice part on the Greek collaborators ? No? Try reading, ask your parents, they might set you straight. Maybe you will stop being so antisemitic after you talk with them . They lived the times, they can tell you first hand what went on.
 
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  • #730
kyleb said:
No, the first two quotes in what I sighted above are direct from Herzl's diary. Please quit ignoring these facts:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

...quoted by the nazi war criminal. You are doing a fine job.
 
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  • #731
As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:
Didnt realize Glasgow was in Greece :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#German_Invasion_of_Greece_and_Crete

Greece was commended by the Allies after the war for there courage, there will be trators everywhere. Churchill was even quoted saying
No longer will people say that Greeks fight like brave men, they will say brave men fight like Greeks.
Again you smear the VAST majority by the actions of the few.
 
  • #732
clj4 said:
No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Comprehension?

clj4 said:
You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.

...

Anttech said:
Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

...

clj4 said:
The people of the many european countries who either signed pacts and/or colaborated with the nazis . Do you need a history refresher? France, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.

...

Anttech said:
Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

...

clj4 said:
First off learn how to write English. You claim that you lived all over Europe but you can't write: it is "corroborate' , not "collaborate".

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-agression pacts signed with the nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).

As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborationism

Looks like both your birth country and your adopted one figure high on the list. .

Have you had enough? Do you want more?

...

Anttech said:
No I am too young to remember those Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)

...

clj4 said:
No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

Considering we were talking about Jews, and you asserted that the Europeans sold out the jews with pacts, I think I was asking a rather on topic question, which once again, you choose to ignore and continue to insult me.

So answer the question, Are you asserting the pact that were between GB and Germany and Russia and Germany were to sell out the Jews?
 
  • #733
clj4 said:
...quoted by the nazi war criminal. You are doing a fine job.
No they are directly quoted from Herzl's diary by a group of Jewish people who are victims and decedents of that Nazi war criminal's Victoms. Please stop denying historical fact here, and read this:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm
 
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  • #734
Did you see the nice part on the Greek collaborators ? No? Try reading, ask your parents, they might set you straight. Maybe you will stop being so antisemitic after you talk with them . They lived the times, they can tell you first hand what went on.
You are now accusing me of being anti-semitic? Please show me where I was being anti-semitic. Maybe I was being anti-"kill all the Lebanese civilians".

What have my parents got to do with this?

Can you stop insulting me, I am getting a bit tired of this
 
  • #735
Anttech said:
Didnt realize Glasgow was in Greece :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#German_Invasion_of_Greece_and_Crete

Greece was commended by the Allies after the war for there courage, there will be trators everywhere. Churchill was even quoted saying Again you smear the VAST majority by the actions of the few.
Hmm,

Are you a lawyer? What Glasgow -you told us that you are Greek, if you live in Glasgow this doesn't make it your BIRTH country, right? Can you read (and comprehend). Here is the stuff straight off wiki:

"In Greece, general Tsolakoglou, who did not represent the Greek government in exile, signed the surrender of Greece in April 1941. Tsolakoglou was awarded for this contribution the ledership of the first Nazi-held puppet government in Athens. Tsolakoglou was followed by Logothetopoulos, who wished to create a Greek division for the Waffen-SS. Although he failed to, he helped some thousand die-hard fascists and national-socialist (some from the previous quasi-fascist regime of Ioannis Metaxas of 1936-1941), anti-communist and anti-semite Greeks to volunteer and enroll in the German Army. The third Greek collaborationist regime was headed by Ioannis Rallis. Unlike in other countries, most Greek collaborators and far-right sympathizers enjoyed prominent posts in the post-war Greek governments"

I am starting to wonder , you obviously lie to yourself, are you lying to everyone else? It isn't working.
 
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  • #736
In Greece, general Tsolakoglou, who did not represent the Greek government in exile

Exactly. As I said there are always a few nutters.

I am starting to wonder , you obviously lie to yourself, are you lying to everyone else?
Ohh so you are calling me a liar! I am glad we cleared that up.

Greece did indeed have a civil war after ww2, however the people you are trying to represent as the Greek common person, were defeated. I am not Anti-Semantic, and I RESENT[/size] that accusation. I am sure there are people who hate Jews in Greece, and I am sure there are people who hate Jews in the USA, but does that mean that you are also Anti-semantic?
 
  • #737
Hmm,

Are you a lawyer? What Glasgow -you told us that you are Greek, if you live in Glasgow this doesn't make it your BIRTH country, right? Can you read (and comprehend).

That was a quick edit, but yes I did actually say I was "brought up in Glasgow" Not lived but brought up. I said my Family is Greek. Yes I can read, can you?

Actually I have lived in London, been to Madrid many times, and was brought up in Glasgow.
 
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  • #738
Bystander said:
India, John Keay, gives a good picture of "moderate" Islam vs. "fundamentalist" Islam during the Mogul, Moghul, Muhgal, era; you might also want to look into the "Old Man in the Mountain" and his (their) "hashshashin, hashishin, assassins" --- depending on sources, they look a lot like the model bin Laden styles himself after, or you'll read that they're "apostates." Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, this, that, and the other Caliphate, and the squabbles among them all have been going on for a millennium. The point being that they've been making a colossal mess of the cultures, politics, and social structures of the area for well over a thousand years. Acknowledgment of the root of the squabbles, who's got first dibs on the collection plates, is never made by any of the parties to the squabbles; the squabbles are instead attributed to the actions of outsiders, infidels, "the Great Satan," and any other number of puerile excuses, much the same as the "fact" that no group of 8-12 year olds have ever put baseballs through neighbors' windows --- birds swooped down, grabbed the ball and dropped it, it rolled into the street and a passing truck squeezed it under a tire and it popped out like a watermelon seed, a passing biker gang grabbed it and deliberately threw it through the window --- you can as easily attribute "the rise of fundamentalism" to the rise of the "dial an excuse industry" Freud started --- they aren't fundamentalists because they're ignorant, greedy, vicious, vindictive people --- they're fundamentalists because 90% of the world's population enjoys a better standard of living without Islam, and it makes them look and feel bad about themselves --- we've destroyed their "self-esteem."

Nah, we've destroyed their self esteme not at all(you know this) We simply don't understand their culture, their history, or their idealogy, and frankly we don't want to.

Freuyd is wrong, it's nothing of the sort. It's just a dark and sad case to destroy an argument, because we're not talking to anyone who is an Arab, just making judgements based on a culture we don't understand, I would expect better from Freuyd. And I would expect better from those who claim to have an education, and validity, it's simply pointless when you have no understanding of history. Freuyd yeah like Godwyns law doesn't crop up there :smile:
 
  • #739
Anttech said:
That was a quick edit, but yes I did actually say I was "brought up in Glasgow" Not lived but brought up. I said my Family is Greek. Yes I can read, can you?

good that you can read , look your future in the face:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

They are telling you exactly what's in store for you.
 
  • #740
Thats democracy for you, I wouldn't have it any other way. We are free to voice our opinions. I don't aggree with what they are saying, but as long as they arent causing any trouble they can protest as much as they wish. Its not new, and has happened with other extremist such as the Socialist-Feminists movement that happened in the UK
 
  • #741
Okay, everyone, take a time out from this thread and cool your tempers. It may or may not be re-opened, depending on whether any of the mentors is willing to read through 50 pages of posts to sort out bickering from reasonable discussion, but it's dancing dangerously close to the line for violating P&WA guidelines for inflammatory posts and personal attacks, so I'm cutting it off here until the mentors have a chance to further discuss the fate of this thread.
 

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