Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[BobG]

Those Alaskan Separatists really take the crackpot cake. The US bought the land in the 1860's, they subsidize the territory so the place is even habitable for most of the people up there and now those living there would want to make off with the pirate's booty of oil wealth in the name of separatism?

Oddly if the Alaskan Independence Party had its way Palin couldn't serve - an interesting double standard for Todd Palin no doubt.

It's their contention that that the 6:1 vote in 1958 in favor of statehood should be invalidated because in that election voters weren't offered the choice of becoming independent. The basis of the claim is United Nations rules concerning annexation - laws that do not have jurisdiction for US sovereign matters. (I wonder how many people are alive that voted in that election?)

Actually, the US bought the land for $963 million in 1971.

The 1860 agreement with Russia really couldn't hold up legally, in spite of its place in US history. You should own the land you sell, or at least have visited it. Russia visited and settled a few islands along the Aleutians and in the Gulf of Alaska.

The US had to repurchase the land from the Native Americans that actually lived there. In fact, oil on the North slope and the need for the Alaska pipeline led the US to finally agree to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act where Native Americans relinquished claims to all but 10% of the state's land.

I'm not sure what you mean by government subsidies making the land habitable since people have been living there way before the government existed. The government has made a lot of improvements to the infrastructure - especially in communication and transportation, but that was motivated by the military bases the US built there and by the oil that exists there.

 

[baywax]

No he isn't, not publicly.

OK, I guess this statement from Brown was him keeping his nose out of American Politics.

Brown extols Obama's plan to lift the U.S. out of an economic recession and slow home foreclosures.

"In the electrifying U.S. presidential campaign, it is the Democrats who are generating the ideas to help people through more difficult times," Brown gushes.

"To help prevent people from losing their home, Barack Obama has proposed a foreclosure prevention fund to increase emergency pre-foreclosure counseling and help families facing repossession."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/gordon-brown-ob.html

 

[baywax]

England still has a state sponsored church.

Better than a church sponsored state.

Originally Posted by US 1st Amendment text
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

And this must apply to each individual... even those who govern the population of the USofA. Personal beliefs are a hands off point of concern in a democracy. However, Hitler had personal beliefs that permeated his entire admin and instigated some pretty horrible actions. Do you see a fail safe against this kind of dictatorship in the constitution?

Letting someone with strong beliefs or convictions... such as to a god or to a mega corporation... run a country seems like a mistake... and has proven to be one over and over again.

That's why I say Americans have a choice between dementia and a dream. Voting for Republicans requires amnesia and a form of dementia to forget the atrocities that have come out of their time in office. Voting for the Dems requires the courage to uphold the American Dream of equality and forward thinking diplomacy.

 

[edward]

Shades of George Bush , Palin is witholding 1000 official emails claiming executive priviledge.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9620_sarah_palin_secret_email.html

The woman learns fast the McCain handlers may remove her training wheels any day now.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But this is really a non-issue. We are talking about a creationist, god-channeling crackpot who believes Bush's plan for Iraq is "God's plan".

Actually, in the church video, she was praying to make it God's plan retroactively. That's a first.

...also praying that it's God's plan to drill for oil in Alaska.

Did anyone catch the bit that Palin is an "energy expert" because Alaska has a pipeline? Isn't that a bit like saying that Obama is an energy expert because they grow corn in Illinois?

 

[Gokul43201]

Sexist nonsense from McCain-Palin yet again. What a pathetic scumbag camapign!

U32G5_bqFvA[/youtube] [url]WMPYkNQ...bama's statement. [url]dbQ1OUi-j3M[/youtube]

 

[mheslep]

...And this must apply to each individual... even those who govern the population of the USofA. Personal beliefs are a hands off point of concern in a democracy. However, Hitler had personal beliefs that permeated his entire admin and instigated some pretty horrible actions. Do you see a fail safe against this kind of dictatorship in the constitution?

Yes, the 1st amendment just as is. Its worked fairly well for >200 yrs and is not in need of further modification or elaboration by you.

Letting someone with strong beliefs or convictions... such as to a god or to a mega corporation... run a country seems like a mistake... and has proven to be one over and over again...

That demonstrates some amnesia about the 20th century, or for that matter the founding of a constitution democracy in the US. The largest threats to life and freedom in the 20th century were those that held no belief in a deity and held that the state was omnipotent and that the individual was subservient to that state.

 

[turbo]

Meghan McCain said on Fox News that her father uses the phrase "put lipstick on a pig" - maybe he's jabbing Palin, too? Of course, McCain also called his wife a "trollop" and another word that is a very pejorative term for a bit of female anatomy that most any woman would sucker-punch him for. Now, McCain's feminist sensitivities come to the fore. Let him call Palin the names he called his wife, and she'd shoot and gut him.

 

[LowlyPion]

The US had to repurchase the land from the Native Americans that actually lived there. In fact, oil on the North slope and the need for the Alaska pipeline led the US to finally agree to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act where Native Americans relinquished claims to all but 10% of the state's land.

Technically your description is incorrect. The US purchased the land originally from Russia. Or perhaps more correctly purchased a Quit claim to the land from Russia. Thereafter the US asserted their dominion and control over the territory.

In 1971 they arrived at an agreement to settle Native American claims to land, but that was in no way a "repurchase" of Alaska itself, it was merely a settlement in which the US ceded title to lands for which Alaska tribal aborigines could demonstrate claim through continuous use and offered as an incentive to settlement additional payment. I'd say it was if anything a clarification of what their rights were under US Law.

 

[LowlyPion]

Sexist nonsense from McCain-Palin yet again. What a pathetic scumbag camapign!

So much so, I'd say that the line was planted in Palin's speech for the very purpose of using it in this manner.

Obama's comments if anything are reaffirmed by such disregard for the Truth and resorting to purposeful misrepresentation - things that McCain earlier pledged he would not allow in the campaign.

How can he represent that he is for change standing there with Bush's Raging Rove Red painted on his lips?

 

[LowlyPion]

The largest threats to life and freedom in the 20th century were those that held no belief in a deity ...

And the current threats coming from those that would impose their faith based beliefs on others - no gay marriages, no abortions, no stem cell research, no global warming, but pro-intelligent design - should be condoned because of their claim to believe in a Deity?

Isn't the tyranny of the many to be feared as much as the tyranny of the few?

 

[edward]

New Mccain add increases the slime factor.

 

[LowlyPion]

Obama's response to the Lipstick distortion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtcW2Hq5iE

It's sad to see McCain selling his soul to the radical attack wing. I'd say he has indeed forgotten what Honor is.

Picking Palin is obviously a very poor philosophical choice born out of desperation at being behind. But ceding tactical control to such mean-spirited handlers, makes him either totally hypocritical or not in control of his own campaign and his own message.

 

[Pecos Bill]

If you listen to Governor Palin without looking at her she sounds just like Pat Sweeney, who played the whining obnoxious character of indeterminate sex named Pat on NBC's Saturday Night Live in the 90's.

 

[John Richard]

I'm British so unfortunately I can't vote in the forthcoming US ellection. Somehow I feel this is not entirely fair since my government does nothing but suck up to the US establishment and this effectively turns the UK into a US dependancy.

You have a credit crunch and so do we, you decide who to hate and we go along with it. You go to war and so do we. Our international policies are mostly determined by yours. We cry together, we laugh together, (usually at American sit com's cause they are genuinely the best). Our innocent citizens and members of our armed forces often die together. We eat the same fast food, which is probably killing us all but damn it it's addictive and tasty.

I think I would like to start a campain to get UK citizens the right to a US vote!

If I was able to vote I would vote for Obama but I'm scared, their is so much of the spirit of the Kenedy years surrounding Obama that I worry he might not make to the White House without getting shot. Please don't kill him, I would prefer him to be the one pulling Gordon Brown's strings.

Citizen to citizen I like America a lot, but we both have crap governments at the moment so give us both a better one in November.

The pig with lipstick bit was the main story on our main news program and it's obvious to me that they also prefer Obama since they were at pains to make it clear that it was an out of context smear by the McCain lot.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think I would like to start a campain to get UK citizens the right to a US vote!

That issue was decided against your interest a couple of hundred years ago.

Hopefully though, Americans will sort out the Truth of matters by November.

 

[baywax]

Yes, the 1st amendment just as is. Its worked fairly well for >200 yrs and is not in need of further modification or elaboration by you.

That demonstrates some amnesia about the 20th century, or for that matter the founding of a constitution democracy in the US. The largest threats to life and freedom in the 20th century were those that held no belief in a deity and held that the state was omnipotent and that the individual was subservient to that state.

Nice come back, but, you will admit Brown does seem to fancy Obama, I guess the Brits are just as sexist as Muslims, (joke)

 

[John Richard]

Nice come back, but, you will admit Brown does seem to fancy Obama, I guess the Brits are just as sexist as Muslims, (joke)

I think Gordon Brown (GB) stinks of Barak Obama (BO).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because her father is Janet Reno."
--- John McCain
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

Chelsea was about 18 at the time.

 

[LowlyPion]

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because her father is Janet Reno."
--- John McCain
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

Chelsea was about 18 at the time.

I'd forgotten about that, though I do recall it now.

Unfortunately, this will only offend those that wouldn't vote for him anyway and will likely just tend to entertain those that are his supporters because I think his base shares the same mean spirit and disregard for others that prompts such gratuitous insensitive humor.

Meanwhile the Republicans will say Bristol can't be joked about for her youthful indiscretions.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'd forgotten about that, though I do recall it now.

Unfortunately, this will only offend those that wouldn't vote for him anyway and will likely just tend to entertain those that are his supporters because I think his base shares the same mean spirit and disregard for others that prompts such gratuitous insensitive humor.

Meanwhile the Republicans will say Bristol can't be joked about for her youthful indiscretions.

What matters are the undecided independents - esp the female ones.

Does this sound like something a friend to women would say? McCain has shown a very mean spirit and a condescending attitute towards women, and it is time to remind people of this fact. What kind of man - a US Senator - would publically insult an eighteen year old girl by calling her ugly? Not to mention the implications for Reno, who was quite ill, IIRC.

 

[Astronuc]

Palin gets her pork, or bacon, or

maybe she renamed it hamburger.

She didn't say "Thanks, but no thanks" because the money was redirected to other earmarks for Alaska. So she takes credit for something she did not say, and she took the money 'earmarked' for the bridge.

Sooooo eeeeeeee!

Origins Of Bridge To Nowhere Explained
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94481285

All Things Considered, September 10, 2008 · "The Bridge to Nowhere" has been a much-used phrase by the McCain Campaign. Keith Ashdown, chief investigator for the watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense, says he coined the phrase in 2004 after a couple of beers.

The piece covers the timeline of the Bridge, which Palin supported while running for Governor (apparently even wearing T-shirts that read "I'm from Nowhere", and indicating that she would not stand in the way of progress, vis-a-vis the Bridge). Although she eventually relented on the bridge project - Palin kept the $223 million, as redirected earmarks, including a project on Gravina Island where the bridge was supposed to go! She didn't save taxpayers anything.

Palin bears false witness - yet again, and again, and again.

. . . , Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) will offer an amendment to the Senate’s appropriation bill to transfer the $223 million that Congress had previously approved for a bridge in Ketchikan, Alaska, to fund reconstruction of a hurricane-damaged bridge in Louisiana. Dubbed the “Bridge to Nowhere,” the bridge in Alaska would connect the town of Ketchikan (population 8,900) with its airport on the Island of Gravina (population 50) at a cost to federal taxpayers of $320 million, by way of three separate earmarks in the recent highway bill. At present, a ferry service runs to the island, but some in the town complain about its wait (15 to 30 minutes) and fee ($6 per car). The Gravina Island bridge project is an embarrassment to the people of Alaska and the U.S. Congress. Fiscally responsible Members of Congress should be eager to zero out its funding.
. . . .

In opposing Senator Coburn’s amendment to defund the bridge, one prominent Senator told a closed-door meeting of conservatives that the plan was simply impractical. Many of the earmarks, he claimed, are counted towards a state’s equity bonus and thus are part of the state-by-state allocation formula. Defunding the bridge, he said, would direct at most $75 million to Louisiana, with the remaining $148 million returning to Alaska as money the state could use at its discretion for road projects.
. . . .

October 20, 2005, http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm889.cfm
Congress was already trying to kill the "Bridge to Nowhere", and redirect the funding elsewhere.


Why isn't Alaska paying for that stuff with the royalties from oil and gas? Why are the lower 48 states subsidizing Alaska, when Alaska, like Texas, has a huge revenue stream from oil and gas. Is John McCain planning on eliminating subsidies for Alaska?

And the latest diversion from the McCain campaign?

Putting Lipstick On A Pig
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94481288

All Things Considered, September 10, 2008 · The phrase "lipstick on a pig" is commonly employed by politicians including Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain, Vice President Dick Cheney and Rep. Charles Rangel. Joel Salatin, a farmer from Swoope, Va., talks about what actually happens when one attempts to put lipstick on a pig.

 

[LowlyPion]

And the latest diversion from the McCain campaign?

Putting Lipstick On A Pig

Sadly that's apparently the only substantive tactic available.

I recall McCain's earlier shooting his mouth off about running a clean high-minded campaign, but that apparently has been left in the dust by these numbingly stupid arguments, juxtaposed without of context remarks, intending to cast aspersions on Obama. Sadly I think he is only serving to cast aspersions on himself in highlighting his hypocrisy on acting honorably.

Apparently the only strategy they can develop is to start a food fight and hope that no one notices that the country and the economy is in a shambles as a result of the cynical Bush agendas of lowering the tax on the rich, eliminating environmental and financial market oversight, and squandering the country's surpluses in ill advised foreign adventures.

Street bums begging for more money swearing they have changed and all the time looking out the corner of their eye at the liquor store across the street.

 

[Gokul43201]

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because her father is Janet Reno."
--- John McCain
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

Chelsea was about 18 at the time.

You think that was bad? Have you heard the gorilla-rape joke?

jJjJXbZuZy0[/youtube] Or the tim...ationship choices) and people are surprised?!

 

[turbo]

Bloomberg.com is featuring a summary of Palin's ethical lapses. Those that we know about, anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080911/pl_bloomberg/alulrclkxig4;_ylt=Asme6dGyjjQsrcTPi495kYCs0NUE

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Putting Lipstick On A Pig
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94481288

What a rip. After Joel Salatin puts the lipstick on the pig, the interviewer asks a lot of irrelevant questions, but we never get to find out the answer to the real question. Was it still a pig?

 

[Astronuc]

Palin’s Pipeline Is Years From Being a Reality
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us/politics/11pipeline.html

ANCHORAGE — When Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska took center stage at the Republican convention last week, she sought to burnish her executive credentials by telling how she had engineered the deal that jump-started a long-delayed gas pipeline project.
. . . .

“And when that deal was struck, we began a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence,” said Ms. Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee. “That pipeline, when the last section is laid and its valves are opened, will lead America one step farther away from dependence on dangerous foreign powers that do not have our interests at heart.”

The reality, however, is far more ambiguous than the impression Ms. Palin has left at the convention and on the campaign trail.

Certainly she proved effective in attracting developers to a project that has eluded Alaska governors for three decades. But an examination of the pipeline project also found that Ms. Palin has overstated both the progress that has been made and the certainty of success.

The pipeline exists only on paper. The first section has yet to be laid, federal approvals are years away and the pipeline will not be completed for at least a decade. In fact, although it is the centerpiece of Ms. Palin’s relatively brief record as governor, the pipeline might never be built, and under a worst-case scenario, the state could lose up to $500 million it committed to defray regulatory and other costs.
. . . .

Now, though, she will need the industry’s cooperation if her plan is to succeed, and just this week, her office said she intended to reach out to the North Slope oil companies.

As Ms. Palin takes to the road to campaign with Mr. McCain, invoking the pipeline as a major victory, some Alaska lawmakers who initially endorsed her plan now believe it was a mistake. State Senator Bert Stedman, a Republican who is co-chairman of the finance committee, said that in its contract with the chosen developer, TransCanada, the state bargained away too much leverage with little guarantee of success.

Hmmmmm. So Palin claims she engineered the deal that jump-started a long-delayed gas pipeline project - but there is not pipeline project - well only on paper, where it's been before she took office. So if she becomes VP, she'll dump this inconvenience on her successor.


And did she really take on the Republican machine (and remove it from the process) - or just replace it with herself?

 

[LowlyPion]

What a rip. After Joel Salatin puts the lipstick on the pig, the interviewer asks a lot of irrelevant questions, but we never get to find out the answer to the real question. Was it still a pig?

Sounded like it was a pig. The pig apparently went out to lie in the dirt again

Sounds quite a lot like what his Neo-Bush ideology will be doing if Rove can manage to get re-elected ... er I mean get McCain elected.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Sounded like it was a pig. The pig apparently went out to lie in the dirt again.

All we know is that some animals went to lie down. Whether they lied down in dirt is still an open question. But the main question was not answered. What we have here is yet another example of a liberal bamboozled by the mainstream press.

 

[LowlyPion]

All we know is that some animals went to lie down. Whether they lied down in dirt is still an open question. But the main question was not answered. What we have here is yet another example of a liberal bamboozled by the mainstream press.

He did indicate that they got some red on their noses. I must infer from that, if he took note of their dirty noses, that if there was any other transformation, it was not any more noteworthy than that they got red on their snouts.

I didn't for instance hear him say the animal went out and registered as a Republican.

 

[mheslep]

Palin’s Pipeline Is Years From Being a Reality
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us/politics/11pipeline.html
Hmmmmm. So Palin claims she engineered the deal that jump-started a long-delayed gas pipeline project - but there is not pipeline project - well only on paper, where it's been before she took office. ...

Whatever its faults, there was no approved plan at all before Palin, now there is. Previously the pipeline was completely stalled, dead, as the legislature killed Murkowski's deal w/ the North Slope companies. Also, the Alaskan share for the dead Murkowski deal the oil co's would have been 20X, $10B, per the NYT piece.
http://dwb.adn.com/money/industries/oil/pipeline/story/8591458p-8484351c.html

 

[Evo]

Seems like the Trans Canada deal is a bit shady, from Astro's link.

The proposal that TransCanada negotiated with the Murkowski administration was structured differently from the current one and had no provision for a $500 million state subsidy, said two people who reviewed it and who spoke on condition of anonymity because the proposal remains confidential.

Of the Palin aides familiar with TransCanada from those earlier negotiations, Ms. Rutherford had an unusually close connection. For 10 months in 2003, she was a partner in a consulting and lobbying firm whose clients included Foothills Pipe Lines Ltd., a subsidiary of TransCanada.

Ms. Rutherford said in an interview that after TransCanada submitted its pipeline proposal to the Palin administration, she and the governor never discussed whether her role on the team might be viewed as improper or give the appearance of a conflict of interest.

<snip>committed the state to paying the winning bidder up to $500 million in matching money to offset costs of obtaining regulatory approvals and other expenses. Ms. Rutherford, whose team recommended the subsidy, <snip>

Ms. Rutherford, who said she had not lobbied for Foothills but had done research and analysis, stated that she was not one of the pipeline team members who recommended a developer to Ms. Palin. That was done by Mr. Irwin and Patrick S. Galvin, the commissioner of the Department of Revenue, she said.

“At the end of the day, I was not a decider,” said Ms. Rutherford, who acknowledged reading the proposals and discussing them with others on the team.

Mr. McAllister, the spokesman for Ms. Palin, said that Ms. Rutherford was not in a position to gain anything from her past association with TransCanada and that her role posed no conflict.

"Not a decider", in the business those are called "influencers", sometimes responsible for the decision although they don't actually sign contracts.

She's not in a position to have legal, direct benefit. Oh, then that means it's not possible that she profited in any way.

 

[baywax]

Seems like the Trans Canada deal is a bit shady, from Astro's link.

"Not a decider", in the business those are called "influencers", sometimes responsible for the decision although they don't actually sign contracts.

She's not in a position to have legal, direct benefit. Oh, then that means it's not possible that she profited in any way.

We've put legislation together where we will only accept IVAN's ALGAE OIL being transported by pipeline across Canadian land. Is there algae in Alaska?

 

[Evo]

We've put legislation together where we will only accept IVAN's ALGAE OIL being transported by pipeline across Canadian land. Is there algae in Alaska?

Does lichen count?

 

[BobG]

Will Palin be kicked off the ticket? (Er, withdraw for personal reasons...) She's being investigated for firing Alaska's Public Safety Director, because, it is said, he refused to fire her ex brother-in-law (a state trooper). It has come out that when she was mayor of her little fiefdom she insisted that each of the town's managers submit their resignations. The head librarian refused, but eventually relented. The police chief refused, so she fired him.

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3767/palin-involved-in-ousting-scandals-from-the-start

How much more stuff needs to dribble out before Palin regretfully withdraws from the rigors of a national campaign to spend more time with her special-needs infant? Will she need to spend time with her pregnant daughter, who will certainly need some guidance and hand-holding if she is going to weather the heavy scrutiny she's been subjected to, and start a new life as a mother and wife?

McCain's choice of Palin has buried the issues that the GOP needs to define to differentiate McCain from Bush. Her constant presence in the national news (even over a holiday weekend dominated by a hurricane) does not seem like such a good thing for the McCain campaign. Is she on the way out?

Is Joe Biden on the way out? http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/11/america/biden.php

"Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America," Biden said Wednesday in Nashua, New Hampshire. "Quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me."

Actually, the problem is that the 'debate' has become between the Democratic Presidential nominee and the Republican Vice Presidential nominee. In that, I guess you could say Biden hasn't held up his end of the boat.

Instead of attacking Palin, he's been busy trying to heal the crippled:

"Chuck, stand up, let the people see you," Biden shouted to State Senator Chuck Graham, before realizing, to his horror, that Graham uses a wheelchair. "Oh, God love ya," Biden said. "What am I talking about?"

Joe really better step up his game a little.