Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[turbo]

Hillary Clinton is going to have to play a key role in the Obama campaign and go on a serious attack against Palin.

Will she do it? There's some risk to her own political career if she attacks too hard.

The Clintons take offense easily, and they hold a grudge. The recent revelation the Palin couldn't bring herself to support Clinton because of Clinton's "whining" is not going to endear the two. If anything can bring Clinton back into play, it's retribution for that slight.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Actually, the counter to Palin on the ticket is pretty straight forward.

Hillary Clinton is going to have to play a key role in the Obama campaign and go on a serious attack against Palin.

Will she do it? There's some risk to her own political career if she attacks too hard.

If they go after each other too viciously it's going to be viewed as a "catfight". That's just going to be bad for everybody.

 

[turbo]

One question for everybody to ponder. If McCain had chosen a young man with no experience in federal government and less than 2 years experience as a governor of a thinly-populated state as his running mate, what would people think of that? Would they be saying "great choice, John"? I think not.

It seems to me that the driving "qualification" of Palin is her gender, and that amounts to pandering on the part of the McCain campaign. Do they think that Hil-lovers will vote for McCain just because there's a (creationist/evangelical/pro-life/pro gun-rights) woman on the ticket? Don't at least some of Clinton's die-hards believe that experience is important? They seemed to make that case whenever they blustered about Obama being inexperienced and Clinton being "ready on day one". One of those ladies (a neighbor in her late 60's) is still talking about Obama "stealing" Clinton's nomination, though I haven't spoken to her since McCain chose Palin.

 

[RonL]

Harry S. Truman stepped up to the plate and made a major decision about a bomb, that just a week or two earlier he had no knowledge of, he was virtually unknown, and had a long list of failed enterprises, and yes maybe a little more exposure to battle, WWI.
Overall I think he was one of our better presidents.

I don't see much yet, that says she can't meet the challenge if the needs arise.

Besides she is just so good looking:!)

 

[Math Is Hard]

One question for everybody to ponder. If McCain had chosen a young man with no experience in federal government and less than 2 years experience as a governor of a thinly-populated state as his running mate, what would people think of that? Would they be saying "great choice, John"? I think not.

It seems to me that the driving "qualification" of Palin is her gender, and that amounts to pandering on the part of the McCain campaign. Do they think that Hil-lovers will vote for McCain just because there's a (creationist/evangelical/pro-life/pro gun-rights) woman on the ticket? Don't at least some of Clinton's die-hards believe that experience is important? They seemed to make that case whenever they blustered about Obama being inexperienced and Clinton being "ready on day one". One of those ladies (a neighbor in her late 60's) is still talking about Obama "stealing" Clinton's nomination, though I haven't spoken to her since McCain chose Palin.

Oh, I think the pandering is beyond obvious.

Call me crazy, but I was sensing some sentiment for a while that if you weren't supporting Obama, you were maybe just a little bit racist. So, now you get a choice: you can either be a racist or a sexist.

 

[Evo]

Her religious beliefs are what is scary to me. I personally do not want a Vice-President, much less a President that speaks in tongues.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Her religious beliefs are what is scary to me. I personally do not want a Vice-President, much less a President that speaks in tongues.

I'm cool with that. But snake-handling is where I draw the line.

 

[Astronuc]

From what I've heard, it was a surprise to her too!

Apparently McCain bypassed the normal procedure of investigating her.

He used Wikipedia?

 

[LowlyPion]

Hillary Clinton is going to have to play a key role in the Obama campaign and go on a serious attack against Palin.

Will she do it? There's some risk to her own political career if she attacks too hard.

As far as Palin goes, I think she is vulnerable from simple exposure. For her more will surely be less. It may not need Hilary as a counterbalance at all. She is apparently not a deep thinker with her faith based science beliefs and I'd say that the more she is called upon to answer the more two dimensional and clueless that she will be seen. One Phil Graham moment from her and their chances will be incinerated to burnt marshmallow.

Unfortunately I think whatever she does the fundamentalist base will continue to think she is just dandy.

 

[LowlyPion]

Oh, I think the pandering is beyond obvious.

Call me crazy, but I was sensing some sentiment for a while that if you weren't supporting Obama, you were maybe just a little bit racist. So, now you get a choice: you can either be a racist or a sexist.

Unfortunately I think there will be racial fallout in the numbers. And it's not that any that may be against him are racist, but I am certain there will be an element of that in some parts of the country, and some will latch on to some reason other than racism not to vote for him. I think it's regrettable.

As to Palin though I think her fundamentalist views will make it easy not to support her without any reference to sexism.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wish there was some kind of medal I could give you. But then people that don't like me would turn on you, so maybe you're better off if I ignore you.

No one can turn on Bob. He's unturnonable!

 

[lisab]

No one can turn on Bob. He's unturnonable!

omg

 

[grant9076]

As to Palin though I think her fundamentalist views will make it easy not to support her without any reference to sexism.

We know that Obama has been going to church regularly for at least 20 years yet no one here is condemning that.

As an atheist, I find it strange that people are so quick to condemn the religious right while making excuses for the religious left. At least, if I had to sit through a sermon, I get the feeling I would rather sit through one at Palin's church than at Obama's.

 

[Benzoate]

She is trying out for a job. Why shouldn't they be weighted?

At least McCain went to the Naval Academy and was a Naval Aviator. The Naval Academy isn't for idiots.

Even if you want to argue McCain got there because of his father (which I won't argue), at least he was exposed to people of a very high caliber and teachers that demanded much from him.

Honestly, school of Journalism from Idaho?....What award winning journalists ever came out of that place?

Ben Franklin never went to any ivy league school(heck he never finished elementary school) and he is considered one of the more knowledgeable founding fathers of the constitution. He was also a polymath. Don't think just because a political figure never attended an ivy league school , that they will not make a good president. Dubya's ivy league education didn't helped make Bush a good president.

 

[Benzoate]

You hear all this talk about how Palin will help get the women's vote. I seriously doubt that. Who are these people that seem to think women are mindless sheeples? I'm personally appalled by her. She follows a religious belief of keeping women in their place as set forth in the bible and would take away a woman's right to choose (abortion). I believe that it should be "a woman's right to choose", it's not that a woman would be forced to have an abortion, she doesn't even believe that women should have a choice. She's what I would call a "throwback".

I not so sure about women, but I know Obama received a large chunk of the black vote(95 %) , just because he is half black(and a democrat). And when Romney was running for the republican nomination, he won the Utah primaries because of the large Mormon population; Same goes for Huckabee when he garnered a large portion of the evangelical vote. Whether we like to admit it or not , the background(whether it be because of the persons racial, religious or any other affliation) of a presidential candidate does have an impact over the way a person will vote. That is why it is soo hard for an atheist or non-religious person to run for president since 70 % of americans say they are religious.

 

[lisab]

I not so sure about women, but I know Obama received a large chunk of the black vote(95 %) , just because he is half black(and a democrat). And when Romney was running for the republican nomination, he won the Utah primaries because of the large Mormon population; Same goes for Huckabee when he garnered a large portion of the evangelical vote. Whether we like to admit it or not , the background(whether it be because of the persons racial, religious or any other affliation) of a presidential candidate does have an impact over the way a person will vote. That is why it is soo hard for an atheist or non-religious person to run for president since 70 % of americans say they are religious.

I thought it was well over 70%...?

 

[Gokul43201]

We know that Obama has been going to church regularly for at least 20 years yet no one here is condemning that.

And you know this from reading how many threads?

But in any case, I have no idea how "regularly" he has been going, nor do I what you mean when you use that word. In any case, over a third of all Americans attend church at least once a month and over half attend at least a few times a year.

Anyway, there's a difference between attending church and being a proponent of creationism.

As an atheist, I find it strange that people are so quick to condemn the religious right while making excuses for the religious left.

As people that work in science, we are quick to condemn creationists and other such crackpots.

At least, if I had to sit through a sermon, I get the feeling I would rather sit through one at Palin's church than at Obama's.

How much do you know about Palin's Church? What if you found out it followed say, a Dominionist theology?

I thought it was well over 70%...?

About 75% attend church and nearly 80% believe in a God.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408

 

[turbo]

Mississippi's Republican governor will not attend the RNC with a possible cat5 hurricane bearing down on his state, but he has had the foresight to invite McCain and Palin down for a briefing on Sunday, so they can look presidential and concerned. With all the stuff that the local authorities may have to deal with, what is the point of inviting VIPs and tying up resources like state and local police, dispatchers, etc who will have to provide escort services, security details, etc? Won't Mississippi's police have their hands full with people who are evacuating and/or trying to secure their properties?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_mccain_gustav;_ylt=ArmSv45qu_.yTYGAg43_Hras0NUE

 

[LowlyPion]

With all the stuff that the local authorities may have to deal with, what is the point of inviting VIPs and tying up resources like state and local police, dispatchers, etc who will have to provide escort services, security details, etc? Won't Mississippi's police have their hands full with people who are evacuating and/or trying to secure their properties?

Except that Haley Barbour is a good soldier in the Republican party. These kinds of photo ops are grist for the Rove news clip mill. As the former head of the RNC he knows who butters his bread.

So what if people are inconvenienced? They have conservatives to get elected.

 

[turbo]

Except that Haley Barbour is a good soldier in the Republican party. These kinds of photo ops are grist for the Rove news clip mill. As the former head of the RNC he knows who butters his bread.

So what if people are inconvenienced? They have conservatives to get elected.

I hope Jackson is top-heavy in cops, dispatchers, and other public-safety personnel, because when people with SS protection roll into town, they place a strain on such services even when everything is going hunky-dory. Gustav may not play nice with Mississippi, and Monday-morning quarterbacking by local officials who felt overwhelmed by a high-profile VIP visit on top of possible mandatory evacuations of coastal areas, pre-positioning medical resources, food, water, ice, etc in advance of a storm... er, well, let's say that those people who work around the clock to provide public safety services in potential emergencies may not be real charitable about the McCain/Palin visit after the fact, especially if it placed undue strains on their resources. McCain should reconsider this trip so this doesn't blow up in his face.

 

[Benzoate]

I thought it was well over 70%...?

I thought so too. But according to a survey taken , 30 % of the people surveyed say they don't go to church or have any religious belief they practice. I guess the remaining 30 % would be composed of athiests , people apathetic to religion, and people who identified themselves as "spiritual"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/us/24religion.html?hp

 

[LowlyPion]

As an atheist, I find it strange that people are so quick to condemn the religious right while making excuses for the religious left.

The difference of course is that Obama is not apparently OK with allowing Intelligent Design discussions to creep into public education. Nor is he against a woman's right to decide about carrying a baby to term, nor against stem cell research. Nor against gay marriages.

I'm all for letting people believe whatever they want about Creation and conception. I am not alright however with having such theories and extreme moral judgments bleed into mainstream social policy by fiat. I take it as a fundamental of the US system that the many should be free of the tyranny of the few and the few should be free of the tyranny of the many. What they do within their sects is my choice to join or ignore. Their attempts to impose their beliefs on me is intolerable.

At least, if I had to sit through a sermon, I get the feeling I would rather sit through one at Palin's church than at Obama's.

I will remain pretty skeptical of this assertion if you are an atheist. I imagine that if you were, you would keep that a secret there in Wasilla, lest an exorcism ensue.

 

[edward]

When in Juneau Palin attends the Juneau Christian Center. For non church goers the trend has been to a music format that attracts the younger generation. Song books are out, big screen LCD's which display the words are in.

Praise songs, such as the one in the link repeat the same verse of a song over and over.



The link is from a Christmas service at Juneau Christian Center. The lady in the foreground with her hands in the air is not directing the music.

Palin's home church is Curch On The Rock in Wasilla.

http://churchontherockak.org/video/index.html

They seem to be pretty informal which is also a trend.

Just to keep peace in the family I attend Church occasionally with my wife at a Southern Baptist Church that has over six thousand members.

For old geezers like me they even have ear plugs available because the music at the Baptist church is deafening. It is like this link only worse.

 

[mheslep]

Here is the problem I have with her, and it seems perhaps the reason she was chosen?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_palin_evangelicals

Ok, but if McCain's calculus is that he's lost already lost your particular demographic (and he's right? I believe you said you're voting Obama) then he's correct to target evangelicals with his VP selection - just from a political standpoint.

 

[WarPhalange]

If they really want to get the conservative vote, they should release pics of Palin cooking and cleaning in an apron.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You hear all this talk about how Palin will help get the women's vote.

I don't think women vote as a monolithic entity, and I don't think anyone serious thinks so either. (I'll ignore the people whose lives revolve around the political blogs and/or talk radio/Air America). There is no such thing as "the women's vote".

Back in the days when Sen. McCain was being trounced in the polls by "probably Sen. Obama", I went through the exercise of calculating how many PUMAs would really need to throw their support over to McCain to change the outcome, and the answer was 6% of Sen. Clinton's supporters. I wouldn't speculate on whether 6% would or would not do this - that's just the number that popped out. I'm too lazy to recalculate the number today, but as McCain has been closing the gap, it's got to be smaller.

Tactically, I think this was about the best choice that McCain could have made. I think the choice of Sen. Biden was poor - picking someone with 35 years in the senate undermined the message of change, and when the senator with the most liberal voting record chooses the senator with the third most liberal voting record, it undermines the message of post-partisianship. Contrast this with Governor Palin, who is able to energize the social conservatives without irritating the moderates and swing voters (this is where her lack of seniority serves as an advantage). McCain's choice is newsworthy, and managed to wipe the Democrats off the front page as soon as the convention was over. It reinforces the idea of "McCain as maverick" which let's him nibble at Obama's own message of change. The immediate and inevitable attacks from the left saying "two years of executive experience is insufficient qualifications for the #2 spot" beg the question "what about two years of federal legislative experience and zero of executive for the #1 spot?" (When you circle the wagons, it helps to shoot out, not in!)

The people who dislike this decision the most are the people who wouldn't vote for McCain anyway. So from McCain's perspective, it doesn't matter. Selecting a candidate who can improve the ticket's standing among swing voters and at the same time energize the base was brilliant - I would argue the best move McCain has made in the campaign yet.

Note that in this message I deliberately avoided saying whether I like her or not.

 

[Astronuc]

I don't think women vote as a monolithic entity, and I don't think anyone serious thinks so either. (I'll ignore the people whose lives revolve around the political blogs and/or talk radio/Air America). There is no such thing as "the women's vote".

I don't think there is a monolithic voting entity of any kind, particularly on the national or state-wide levels. Certainly the 'media' like to use terms like 'black' vote, or 'womens' vote, or red states vs blue states. It's rather unfortunate in a nation which prides itself on individuality.

Perhaps it's a reflection of a two party system, well there are others like Libertarian, Independent, Green, . . . , but the system is dominated by two parties, as opposed to mutliple parties as is the case in many other countries.

Many individuals do vote for simple reasons. I've mentioned it before, that I encountered a woman who voted for GW because he was better looking than Kerry. She also mentioned, she did not understand the issues, nor was she inclined to expend any effort to understand the issues, e.g. tax policy, international relations, etc.

There is a big difference between those who keep their religiosity personal and those who are compelled to impose their religiosity on others or advertise it conspicuously. The latter is inclined to use the government to impose their particular religious ideology on the mass population, e.g. by introducing or promoting prayer in school, or creationism/ID in science curricula, or using public funds to financial support particular religious groups and exclude others, . . . .

 

[Andre]

But then people that don't like me would turn on you, so maybe you're better off if I ignore you.

No one can turn on Bob. He's unturnonable!

I think Evo intended another context: for others to be turnonbobable

 

[LowlyPion]

It's an ill wind that blows no good.

Gustav has apparently provided a perfect opportunity to keep Bush away from the convention in Minneapolis. PR moment to be avoided - Bush on stage with McCain. Hide Bush in a bunker where people can't see how little he is actually doing and let the stage be McCain's.

 

[Astronuc]

It's an ill wind that blows no good.

Gustav has apparently provided a perfect opportunity to keep Bush away from the convention in Minneapolis. PR moment to be avoided - Bush on stage with McCain. Hide Bush in a bunker where people can't see how little he is actually doing and let the stage be McCain's.

Divine intervention perhaps?