News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[LowlyPion]

And it was Rove who was predicting that Obama would pick the politically useful choice over more qualified candidates. Ummm yes - Biden is not qualified, but Palin is!

Hypocrisy in the name of achieving right wing agenda goals is not something that apparently worries or slows Bush-Cheney-Rove in their actions or their words.

 

[isly ilwott]

Palin would make a much better President than Obama.

 

[Cyrus]

Palin would make a much better President than Obama.

Now your just trying to crack me up!

 

[Evo]

Palin would make a much better President than Obama.

In what ways? I don't see her qualified in any way as a President. What does she know about foreign affairs? How could she possibly be fit to be the Commander in Chief of the military?

This is what kills me about people voting for a President based on "family moral values" and how religious they are.

With McCain's advanced age and history of medical problems, it is very likely that she could end up as President, and that to me is completely unacceptable.

 

[Astronuc]

I disagree. Bush has learned a lot and is now a much better President than when he started. The problem is that he dug himself such a deep hole...

How is Bush better than when he started? One of Bush's many problems is that he doesn't know when he's wrong, which is most of the time IMO. He is fiscally irresponsible (and so is Congress), he's still stuck in an ill-conceived occupation in Iraq (and his belligerent foreign policy is counter-productive), his administration was late in understanding and responding to the current economic crisis, his education policies have failed, the US is more dependent on foreign energy sources than ever, . . . . Bush was inept 8 years ago, and will leave office as inept as ever.

By the way, I like Palin. She stood up to the oil companies in Alaska. That shows gumption and honesty -- two things Bush and his VP lack in spades.

I think Palin is basically honest - I'll give her that. She killed the 'bridge to nowhere'.

And granted, she's no pushover with the oil companies - http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/newsmakers/palin_oil.fortune/index.htm

Palin also raised taxes on oil companies after Murkowski's previous tax regime produced falling revenues in 2007, despite skyrocketing oil prices. Alaska now has some of the highest resource taxes in the world. Alaska's oil tax revenues are expected to be about $10 billion in 2008, twice those of previous year. BP says about half its oil revenues now go to taxes, when royalty payments to the state are included.

Alaska gets tough on Big Oil

I do see that Palin is pro-drilling/development (in ANWR?). She made a comment about producing more natural gas in order to 'help make the US energy independent' - which it won't. Only conservation in order to reduce energy consumption combined with alternative and renewable energy sources will make the US less dependent on foreign energy sources. But if the US cannot reduce demand for energy below that which can be produced from domestic resources, the US will always be dependent on other countries.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWi6yTVfPyJeiTBsQ33SSUiobt8wD92I9NIO0 - In this article, it talks about how Palin "jump-started a project to build a natural gas pipeline and pushed through a plan to send every resident $1,200 from the state's oil-rich treasury to offset high fuel prices." But there is some concern that she used her office improperly with regard to her brother-in-law. That might have repercussions in Nov.

 

[LowlyPion]

Do we have the statistics on voter demographics? I just read that 26% of registered voters are Evangelical.

This is the figure that Wikipedia shows, though it is sourced ultimately from the Bliss Institute in Akron.

This link from Bill Moyers puts the appeal to Evangelicals into some perspective as far as the electoral calculus is concerned.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/print/religionandpoliticsclass_print.html

I think he used some of their numbers as well.

 

[turbo]

She may be smart enough and competent enough to assume the office, if necessary, but right now, we know nothing about her positions. Yes, she is governor of a very large state, but that state has fewer people than 16 individual cities do, and it is awash in oil revenues, so she never had to face tough budgetary issues like most governors do.

Palin is a wild-card for McCain. If she gets caught flat-footed when asked questions about foreign affairs, trade policies, economic policies, etc, she's going to be compared to Biden, and none-too-favorably. We'll see how this plays out. When she invoked Clinton's 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, I wanted to gag - especially after she had said that she was turned off by Clinton's whining.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/156190/output/print

 

[lisab]

Couldn't agree more.

Really, people (yes lisa, I'm glaring at you) - her hair? Tut tut.

*laughs at Gokul's glare*

OK, I admit it...I'm off in left field with the hair thing. But it reminds me of the polygamist's hairdos...is a 1950's style beehive now a religous right-wing fashion statement?

 

[castlegates]

Babe Ruth at one time did not have any experience in the world of baseball, yet he was the greatest player of all time. For anyone to say that Palin can't do the job of president based on a ten minute acceptance speech shows an unwillingness to learn more about her potential to do the job. I'd certainly hate to have you as a baseball scout. The next few months should be telling.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think Palin is basically honest - I'll give her that. She killed the 'bridge to nowhere'.

And granted, she's no pushover with the oil companies ...

If there is a concern in this regard it is that VP is not exactly in the "honesty" chain of command. Making her a poster girl for honesty - while certainly a media upgrade to the likes of Cheney and Rove and Bush - doesn't mean that she will make any difference in that regard.

Though ultimately I must suppose that McCain is himself more honorable and honest than the current bunch and regardless of the results of the election the country can at least look ahead to an upgrade in that area.

 

[kyleb]

The Evo Child is so pro Obama that she said she's personally driving me to the polls to make sure that I don't fail to vote. She was so vehement in her pro-Obamaness that I thought the car might burst into flames.

Does she not understand that our electorial votes here in Kansas are going to McCain regardless of if she drags you to the polls or not?

 

[BobG]

Most elections are based on looks.
So I'll make some observations.
Anybody notice what it looks like when Biden is standing next to Obama during an interview, where Biden is old enough to be Obamas dad, and the questions go to Obama for the answers, while Biden is forced to bite his lip, and take on the role of boy? My word of advice - Don't be seen together until after the election. :-)

Those Palin spectacles are hot! hot! hot!. Rectangle lens!?, One side square and one side round!? Enough to make anyone go gaga! Just wait to see what happens when she takes them off, or better yet, when she puts them back on after taking them off! I just can't tell you enough how hot those glasses are!

The black dress she wore yesterday did not cut it. She should have worn red (an attack dress), then worn black the next day as a somber expression from killing the cat the day before. Then wear yellow tomorrow as the dawning of a new era.

I'm not kidding here ... this tripe matters.

Blame the system by which our leaders are chosen, it's a popularity contest by the nature of design. Change the design or resign yourself to the vanity of people magazine. Be an expert of fashion to make an informed decision. Hold your vote until you are up on the latest hairstyles, and never take your eyes off the spectacles!

I like this. Unfortunately, these are very significant factors. Regardless of whether you're right about Obama & Biden together, it won't be an issue since they'll campaign separately. Biden will be a great VP on the campaign trail - and he does add something for those looking for some serious punch in terms of experience.

As much as I think Palin is a huge plus in the election, I have some reservations about her experience level, as well - the same I've had about Obama (especially at the start of the campaign), except even more so. Obama's performance during the campaign has generally been so outstanding that the experience issue really wasn't going anywhere for McCain, anyway.

I don't think as much weight will be put on Palin's inexperience as there should be. Not only does she have no experience in foreign policy issues, she's had no interest in it. It's part of the paradox of gubernatorial experience seeming more important than Congressional experience. Executive experience is seen as being superior in spite of the fact that most governors have almost no reason to show interest in foreign policy and national defense. Bush 43, Clinton, Reagan, and Carter all had no record on foreign policy or national defense, although Reagan at least had to address the issue in previous Presidential campaigns.

It's hard for me to back my own impressions about experience up with any kind of statistical comparison, though. Here's a comparison of previous experience to historical Presidential rankings from Electoral-Vote.com

Is it true that the only experience that really matters is actual Presidential experience? Head coaching experience certainly makes a difference in professional football, right? (Head coaching being another very intense job that happens to have easily accessible records, with easily accessible unfortunately being the most important criteria). Fifty Super Bowls and 19 winning coaches had 1 to 5 years experience, 22 had 6 to 10 years experience, 8 had 11 to 15 years experience, and 1 (Tom Landry) had 18 years experience. Twenty-five head coaches have won at least one Super Bowl and 16 won their first with between 1 to 5 years experience, 5 with 6 to 10 years experience, and 4 with 11 to 15 years exerience (Tom Landry plus the last 3 Super Bowl coaches - experience apparently is gaining importance in professional football. In fact, Landry, Weeb Ewbank, Bill Cowher, Tom Coughlin are the only coaches to win a Super Bowl after their 11th year of coaching.)

Actually, I think the experience factor probably works against McCain since too much experience could also be rephrased as burn-out. I think his running forced a better candidate, Chuck Hagel, out of the race.

You have an election where the Presidential candidates are either too old or too inexperienced to be the "optimal" candidate. Between all four on the tickets, Biden would probably be the best the candidate for the job of President. I'd rank Palin as the least qualified among the four on the tickets. I don't have a lot of confidence in that assessment, though.

 

[turbo]

Babe Ruth at one time did not have any experience in the world of baseball, yet he was the greatest player of all time. For anyone to say that Palin can't do the job of president based on a ten minute acceptance speech shows an unwillingness to learn more about her potential to do the job. I'd certainly hate to have you as a baseball scout. The next few months should be telling.

What a wonderful analogy! You do realize that when sports figures screw up, they lose games, right? And that when the president screws up, people can lose their jobs, insurance, homes, freedoms, and even their lives.

We're already in a great deal of trouble in this country, and it's going to take some skilled, dedicated leaders to help turn things around. This is too important to entrust to just anyone.

 

[LowlyPion]

Babe Ruth at one time did not have any experience in the world of baseball, yet he was the greatest player of all time. For anyone to say that Palin can't do the job of president based on a ten minute acceptance speech shows an unwillingness to learn more about her potential to do the job. I'd certainly hate to have you as a baseball scout. The next few months should be telling.

While he was maybe the best in his time let's don't get too carried away in that regard.

I'd say I certainly have some concerns about how bright and capable she is. Clinging to notions such as Intelligent Design makes one wonder about what kind of scientists she might rely on as President to make decisions about global warming or energy policies or a whole host of other technological issues.

Clinging too to pro-life beliefs - presumably adamantly opposed then to stem cell research - and anti-abortion - marks her as someone swayed by religious ideology over serving the needs of the rest of the population that is not ideologically so inclined. Imposing the tyranny of right wing evangelical belief on the entire population is not exactly in the spirit of the US Constitution.

Unfortunately the only thing that would separate the country from such dismal prospects of dealing with such a person in the White House would be McCain's health. And that is a very scary thought to me that such a person could arrive at such a position of power.

 

[isly ilwott]

What a wonderful analogy! You do realize that when sports figures screw up, they lose games, right? And that when the president screws up, people can lose their jobs, insurance, homes, freedoms, and even their lives.

We're already in a great deal of trouble in this country, and it's going to take some skilled, dedicated leaders to help turn things around. This is too important to entrust to just anyone.

Yes...like when Clinton and the Dem's policies caused manufacturing to move overseas, leaving GWB to blame for the loss of jobs.

It's the Democratic tax and spend policies that kill jobs here. The Republican spending policies have been worse lately, but at least they don't favor taxing us out of business.

Any one of the three others on the tickets would be a better President than Obama.

 

[castlegates]

I like this. Unfortunately, these are very significant factors. Regardless of whether you're right about Obama & Biden together, it won't be an issue since they'll campaign separately. Biden will be a great VP on the campaign trail - and he does add something for those looking for some serious punch in terms of experience.

I see this relationship going the way of the Kennedy Johnson relationship. The more they learn about each others personal lives, the more they turn to hate of each other. It will be fun to watch.

 

[LowlyPion]

Yes...like when Clinton and the Dem's policies caused manufacturing to move overseas, leaving GWB to blame for the loss of jobs.

It's the Democratic tax and spend policies that kill jobs here. The Republican spending policies have been worse lately, but at least they don't favor taxing us out of business.

Any one of the three others on the tickets would be a better President than Obama.

Your indictment of Clinton who enforced fiscal responsibility and actually built surpluses, that have been demolished to the near point of ruin as far as debt burden and mounting balance of payments and looming inflation and financial turmoil due to inadequate regulation and oversight - not to mention the foreign adventurism in the Middle East - looks to me to be rather unfounded.

How can Republicans who can't demonstrate fiscal responsibility - how ironic that Democrats managed it though - how can they be expected to lead the country out of slogging through the fiscal mess - a mess that they led the country into in the first place? Another tax cut? Another rebate?

 

[rootX]

Yes...like when Clinton and the Dem's policies caused manufacturing to move overseas, leaving GWB to blame for the loss of jobs.

It's the Democratic tax and spend policies that kill jobs here. The Republican spending policies have been worse lately, but at least they don't favor taxing us out of business.

Any one of the three others on the tickets would be a better President than Obama.

Are you being rational?

 

[isly ilwott]

In what ways? I don't see her qualified in any way as a President. What does she know about foreign affairs? How could she possibly be fit to be the Commander in Chief of the military?

This is what kills me about people voting for a President based on "family moral values" and how religious they are.

With McCain's advanced age and history of medical problems, it is very likely that she could end up as President, and that to me is completely unacceptable.

You have no clue regarding why I consider her better suited to be President than is Barack Obama. It has little to do with how I rate her moral values or religiousness. Your presumption is just as ludicrous as those made by others who automatically assume that to say anything against Barack Obama is a racist thing to do.

It is my humble but firmly held opinion that Barack Obama will be the worst thing to happen to the USA in decades if he is elected President. I'd rather have Biden than Obama as President. I'd rather have McCain than Obama. I'd rather have Palin than Obama. I'd rather have Sandy (my neighbor's Yellow Lab) than Obama. ANYBODY but Obama!

You see, in that light, my statement has nothing to do with Palin's "family moral values" and how religious she may be perceived to be. I do appreciate her stance on abortion and the decision to knowingly bring a Down syndrome child into her family rather than have its little body parts sucked out into a vacuum cleaner as Barack Obama apparently would allow.

 

[Evo]

She does seem to have a sense of humor, she named two of her kids Trig & Track.

 

[Evo]

You have no clue regarding why I consider her better suited to be President than is Barack Obama. It has little to do with how I rate her moral values or religiousness. Your presumption is just as ludicrous as those made by others who automatically assume that to say anything against Barack Obama is a racist thing to do.

I asked you "in what ways?" I didn't presume anything. I stated "my" opinions. You still need to answer my question since you assigned a truth value to your statement.

I suggest you go back and reread my post since you obvioulsy misread it.

 

[castlegates]

While he was maybe the best in his time let's don't get too carried away in that regard.

I'd say I certainly have some concerns about how bright and capable she is. Clinging to notions such as Intelligent Design makes one wonder about what kind of scientists she might rely on as President to make decisions about global warming or energy policies or a whole host of other technological issues.

Clinging too to pro-life beliefs - presumably adamantly opposed then to stem cell research - and anti-abortion - marks her as someone swayed by religious ideology over serving the needs of the rest of the population that is not ideologically so inclined. Imposing the tyranny of right wing evangelical belief on the entire population is not exactly in the spirit of the US Constitution.

Unfortunately the only thing that would separate the country from such dismal prospects of dealing with such a person in the White House would be McCain's health. And that is a very scary thought to me that such a person could arrive at such a position of power.

You make some very solid points. She has some skeletons in her closet. :-)
To bad we don't have intelligent design in the election process, so we don't have to be talking about the likes of Palin, McCain, Biden, and Obama.

 

[Evo]

An interesting article on McCain's pick.

6 things the Palin pick says about McCain

The risks of a backlash from choosing someone so unknown and so untested are obvious. In one swift stroke, McCain demolished what had been one of his main arguments against Obama.

“I think we’re going to have to examine our tag line, ‘dangerously inexperienced,’” a top McCain official said wryly

2. He’s willing to gamble — bigtime. Let’s face it: This is not the pick of a self-confident candidate. It is the political equivalent of a trick play or, as some Democrats called it, a Hail Mary pass in football. McCain talks incessantly about experience, and then goes and selects a woman he hardly knows, who hardly knows foreign policy and who can hardly be seen as instantly ready for the presidency.

There is no plausible way that McCain could say that he picked Palin, who was only elected governor in 2006 and whose most extended public service was as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (population 8,471), because she was ready to be president on Day One.

Nor can McCain argue that he was looking for someone he could trust as a close adviser. Most people know the staff at the local Starbucks better than McCain knows Palin. They met for the first time last February at a National Governors Association meeting in Washington. Then, they spoke again — by phone — on Sunday while she was at the Alaska state fair and he was at home in Arizona.

McCain has made a mockery out of his campaign's longtime contention that Barack Obama is too dangerously inexperienced to be commander in chief. Now, the Democratic ticket boasts 40 years of national experience (four years for Obama and 36 years for Joseph Biden of Delaware), while the Republican ticket has 26 (McCain’s four yeasr in the House and 22 in the Senate.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/12997

 

[LowlyPion]

You make some very solid points. She has some skeletons in her closet. :-)
To bad we don't have intelligent design in the election process, so we don't have to be talking about the likes of Palin, McCain, Biden, and Obama.

Elections aren't about intelligent design. Because one person's intelligent design is another's phewww.

Elections are about selection - one of the driving forces of evolution - a process apparently denied by ID.

 

[BobG]

You make some very solid points. She has some skeletons in her closet. :-)
To bad we don't have intelligent design in the election process, so we don't have to be talking about the likes of Palin, McCain, Biden, and Obama.

That's funny. I actually think all four are high quality candidates if you look only at attributes distinct from their political positions.

I think Palin is comparable to Obama in 2004 - a very bright star, but about 8 to 12 years away from being qualified to be President.

 

[gravenewworld]

So how long until McCain tries to cheat on this wife with Palin? McCain has an obsession with trying to surround himself with attractive women.

 

[LowlyPion]

She has some skeletons in her closet.

Unfortunately advocating evangelical beliefs is not a skeleton.

It's an indication of what she would subject others to if it was her prerogative. As the Governor of Alaska she can do little to affect that agenda, to impose her beliefs on the Supreme Court or carry national policy away from sound scientific basis. As President however, ...

 

[isly ilwott]

I asked you "in what ways?" I didn't presume anything. I stated "my" opinions. You still need to answer my question since you assigned a truth value to your statement.

I suggest you go back and reread my post since you obvioulsy misread it.

I think not.

You posted:

"In what ways? I don't see her qualified in any way as a President. What does she know about foreign affairs? How could she possibly be fit to be the Commander in Chief of the military?

This is what kills me about people voting for a President based on "family moral values" and how religious they are.

With McCain's advanced age and history of medical problems, it is very likely that she could end up as President, and that to me is completely unacceptable."

Pardon me if I mistakenly related that middle comment to my statement of support for Palin over Obama.

Foreign policy experts are a dime a dozen...good ones, maybe a buck a dozen. What President has not had multiple qualified advisors in every facet of government? I'm not worried about her lack of experience overseas. I am quite sure that with the same interpreters that Obama would need, she can talk turkey with any leader worthy of regard. I doubt she would be so anxious to parley with terrorists as Obama seems to be.

You see, I'm not worried about Obama's lack of experience either. I'm worried about his lack of good judgement. I'm worried about his socialist leanings. I'm worried about his apparent naivete regarding terrorists and what can be accomplished by talking with them.

Obama is still wet behind the ears.

 

[castlegates]

Elections aren't about intelligent design. Because one person's intelligent design is another's phewww.

Elections are about selection - one of the driving forces of evolution - a process apparently denied by ID.

I have the distinct impression you missed my play on words. :-)

 

[Evo]

I think Palin is comparable to Obama in 2004 - a very bright star, but about 8 to 12 years away from being qualified to be President.

I have to agree with Obama lacking experience.

I don't have a problem with a person being religious and following their beliefs in their personal life. It's when that person's religious beliefs can become law and tell me how I live my life that it becomes a real problem. Of course one can argue that everyone has personal beliefs that will affect the decisions they make in public office, but it seems to me that religious beliefs tend to be stronger and aren't always based on sound logic or even good sense and one could possibly be more easily swayed by pressure from religious groups. I don't believe that McCain is that deeply religious, and up until now I haven't been that worried about him, but I do believe that Palin, a devout Pentacostal, would be very scary as President.