News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[LowlyPion]

But most of all, how can anyone trust his judgement after this? Palin is not even in the same league as Obama or Biden, and I think this will be painfully clear soon enough.

He was behind on the scoreboard and he went for a Hail Sarah shot deep down field.

 

[turbo]

Will Palin be kicked off the ticket? (Er, withdraw for personal reasons...) She's being investigated for firing Alaska's Public Safety Director, because, it is said, he refused to fire her ex brother-in-law (a state trooper). It has come out that when she was mayor of her little fiefdom she insisted that each of the town's managers submit their resignations. The head librarian refused, but eventually relented. The police chief refused, so she fired him.

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3767/palin-involved-in-ousting-scandals-from-the-start

How much more stuff needs to dribble out before Palin regretfully withdraws from the rigors of a national campaign to spend more time with her special-needs infant? Will she need to spend time with her pregnant daughter, who will certainly need some guidance and hand-holding if she is going to weather the heavy scrutiny she's been subjected to, and start a new life as a mother and wife?

McCain's choice of Palin has buried the issues that the GOP needs to define to differentiate McCain from Bush. Her constant presence in the national news (even over a holiday weekend dominated by a hurricane) does not seem like such a good thing for the McCain campaign. Is she on the way out?

 

[mheslep]

Seems not to have been the case. Never attribute to ... you know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501863/page/1

or to an unidentified source-report from the DNC network.

 

[Gokul43201]

We got Comedy Central running here, don't we?

There must be at least a half a dozen other independent stories like that all over the radio/TV. I just watched an interview with another reporter that said essentially the same thing about the vetting process.

 

[chasely]

Nah! She's just trying to be VP.

Check out a McCain spokesman looking totally idiotic trying to defend Palin: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/01/brown.tucker.bounds.interview.cnn

I saw that live, it was painful to watch...

But apparently, conservatives love the hell out of her. I guess McCain needs to hope that that is enough.

 

[Cyrus]

Why is it that Republicans constantly try to do nothing but slime slime slime with nothing to back their claims and at the same time are hypocrites of what they complain about.

 

[BobG]

This was the http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080902/pl_politico/13084;_ylt=Agjy93i5JZFhbESJLxAB7SMb.3QA in preparation for the 2006 Gubernatorial election.

‘We want to see Ivana,’ said Palin, who admittedly smells like salmon for a large part of the summer, ‘because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture.’

I think that last item of information pretty much had the Democratic candidate shaking in his mukluks. Personally, I preferred the aroma of DEET over salmon, but each to their own.

 

[BobG]

All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D

The Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston )

Johnston, broad-chested and wearing a No. 15 jersey, can be seen in photographs hitting the boards as a Warrior in action. A closeup shot shows the handsome teen with a light dusting of whiskers on his chin - his dark brown hair curly and wet.

 

[chasely]

Johnston, broad-chested and wearing a No. 15 jersey, can be seen in photographs hitting the boards as a Warrior in action. A closeup shot shows the handsome teen with a light dusting of whiskers on his chin - his dark brown hair curly and wet.

Nothing beats some slightly erotic political coverage!

 

[isly ilwott]

It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

 

[Cyrus]

All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston )

Whoa whao whoa, you're missing the good stuff...

Doe-eyed Bristol Palin, 17, and ruggedly handsome Levi Johnston, an 18-year-old self-described "f---in' redneck," have been dating a year, locals in Wasilla, Alaska, told the Daily News.

And the pregnancy? An open secret in the close-knit town of 9,780.

An OPEN secret? Does that even make sense...

As a voter, I demand this tramp go to Maury Pavitch and we find out whose the babies daddy.

 

[Gokul43201]

All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D

I can see people - especially Jews, as they are most sensitive to the subject - figuring Buchanan for a Nazi sympathizer after reading his book very quickly. If I recall correctly, Buchanan asserts that millions of Jews would not have been killed had the US (or England?) not entered the war and provoked Hitler... or something similar.

Anyway, going with the Nazi sympathizer route is stupid, when there's the much clearer women's rights stands that Buchanan has taken. Not as effective in FL, maybe, but more firmly rooted in fact.

 

[isly ilwott]

Whoa whao whoa, you're missing the good stuff...



An OPEN secret? Does that even make sense...

As a voter, I demand this tramp go to Maury Pavitch and we find out whose the babies daddy.

See what I mean? This is both amusing and revealing.

BTW, " ...find out whose the babies daddy" makes no sense at all. I'm sure we all got the message but who's the baby's daddy has already been revealed. I'm betting that both the baby's mother and father have better command of the English language than do you.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

Specifically: Who did this? I haven't heard anyone criticize her for keeping the baby.

I do criticize her mother for [allegely] opposing sex education in schools. If true, that is like a throw back to the dark ages. In fact, that is a good way to end up with a pregnant, seventeen year old daughter!

 

[Cyrus]

See what I mean? This is both amusing and revealing.

BTW, " ...find out whose the babies daddy" makes no sense at all. I'm sure we all got the message but who's the baby's daddy has already been revealed. I'm betting that both the baby's mother and father have better command of the English language than do you.

Oh brother... it's called a joke. You are totally clueless, man.


Look at you...I think you got something brown on your nose from the Palin family. Why are you so defensive of them? There not your family.

 

[isly ilwott]

Specifically: Who did this? I haven't heard anyone criticize her for keeping the baby.

I do criticize her mother for [allegely] opposing sex education in schools. If true, that is like a throw back to the dark ages.

Anyone that continues to draw attention to it as a scare-off tactic, anyone that condemns Sarah Palin or labels her a hypocrit for what her daughter did, the MSM in pursuit of ratings in exploiting the tabloid facet of teen pregnancy, anyone that speaks of it in a smirky, holier-than-thou tone, anyone that promotes it as reason not to support Palin...&c.

You may notice that my opinion regarding the root cause is stated as an opinion. "I think" should not be inferred to mean "I have proof".

I think Palin would likely garner some votes from liberals if she'd have encouraged and covered up an abortion for a her daughter, taking the easy way out. Liberals seem comfortable with hypocrisy.

 

[rootX]

It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

You should be more specific than that.

P.S. I would better die than living in your society

 

[Cyrus]

I think Palin would likely garner some votes from liberals if she'd have encouraged and covered up an abortion for a her daughter, taking the easy way out. Liberals seem comfortable with hypocrisy.

There you go again. Just loving the taste of that shoe, every post you make. YUMMMMMM.

 

[isly ilwott]

How do you breathe with your head so far up your butt?

Seriously, this post is nothing but insulting and your own propoganda against democrats.

Come on, "the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze" ...seriously? Are you seriously going to claim this? If so, just go for a walk and come back when you can make an actual point or complaint.

You must like the taste of shoe, because you keep putting that foot in your big mouth.

Are you saying that Hollywood is not a liberal cess pool?

Try to come back with some well expressed facts.

 

[Evo]

If the tone of this thread doesn't calm down, action will be taken.

 

[Gokul43201]

It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

Perhaps you'd like to support this assertion first?

And incidentally, if there's anyone forging short marriages they are probably more accurately described as Southern Republican sleaze.

The top 13 states with the highest divorce rates all voted for Bush ... both times.

#1  	Nevada:	        7.1 	
#2  	Arkansas:	6.2 	
#3  	Alabama:	5.4 	
#4  	Wyoming:	5.4 	
#5  	Idaho:	        5.3 	
#6  	West Virginia:	5.2 	
#7  	Kentucky:	5.2 	
#8  	Tennessee:	5.1 	
#9  	Florida:	5.1 	
#10  	Mississippi:	4.9 	
#11  	Colorado:	4.7 	
#12  	Arizona:	4.7 	
#13  	Alaska:         4.6

California comes in at #19.

Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 8 voted for Gore in 2000 and 7 voted for Kerry in '04.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_div_rat-lifestyle-divorce-rate

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

I think you'd do better on a second try.

PS: When you said "...to lesson the results of promiscuity..." what exactly did you mean?

 

[rootX]

Anyone that continues to draw attention to it as a scare-off tactic, anyone that condemns Sarah Palin or labels her a hypocrit for what her daughter did, the MSM in pursuit of ratings in exploiting the tabloid facet of teen pregnancy, anyone that speaks of it in a smirky, holier-than-thou tone, anyone that promotes it as reason not to support Palin...&c.

Please do some more work. I don't think anyone is labeling Sarah Palin as hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant at the age of 17.

 

[JasonRox]

Perhaps you'd like to support this assertion first?

And incidentally, if there's anyone forging short marriages they are probably more accurately described as Southern Republican sleaze.

The top 13 states with the highest divorce rates all voted for Bush ... both times.

#1  	Nevada:	        7.1 	
#2  	Arkansas:	6.2 	
#3  	Alabama:	5.4 	
#4  	Wyoming:	5.4 	
#5  	Idaho:	        5.3 	
#6  	West Virginia:	5.2 	
#7  	Kentucky:	5.2 	
#8  	Tennessee:	5.1 	
#9  	Florida:	5.1 	
#10  	Mississippi:	4.9 	
#11  	Colorado:	4.7 	
#12  	Arizona:	4.7 	
#13  	Alaska:         4.6

California comes in at #19.

Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 8 voted for Gore in 2000 and 7 voted for Kerry in '04.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_div_rat-lifestyle-divorce-rate

I think you'd do better on a second try.

PS: When you said "...to lesson the results of promiscuity..." what exactly did you mean?

Ahhh... beautiful post!

 

[BobG]

I can see people - especially Jews, as they are most sensitive to the subject - figuring Buchanan for a Nazi sympathizer after reading his book very quickly. If I recall correctly, Buchanan asserts that millions of Jews would not have been killed had the US (or England?) not entered the war and provoked Hitler... or something similar.

Anyway, going with the Nazi sympathizer route is stupid, when there's the much clearer women's rights stands that Buchanan has taken. Not as effective in FL, maybe, but more firmly rooted in fact.

At least Buchanon takes these kind of things in stride (he better - half the things he says seem deliberately aimed at being outrageous). He seemed kind of amused this morning on Morning Joe.

 

[turbo]

At least Buchanon takes these kind of things in stride (he better - half the things he says seem deliberately aimed at being outrageous). He seemed kind of amused this morning on Morning Joe.

People have not been really sensitive to his feelings, mostly because he rides rough-shod over those of others. During the 2000 election, a popular joke in Jewish circles was: Buchanan's uncle died in a Nazi prison camp... He fell out of a guard tower.

His public persona exudes right-wing "correctness" etc, and some of the the things that he says borders on hate speech, but at least he was honest enough to admit that Florida's butterfly ballot gave him thousands of votes in heavily Jewish precincts in which he was polled at getting a handful of votes.

 

[russ_watters]

I get such a kick out of listening to Rep pundits answer the following: Is Palin the most qualified person that McCain could have picked?

Do you have any examples? That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question (but a smart pundit should have the obvious answer ready: 'No, but I think the Presidential candidate, not the VP candidate, is the one who needs a few decades of experience').

What is entertaining to me is seeing people who want it both ways. Somehow, for some, Palin's experience is a problem, but Obama's isn't. To me, on the experience issue, Obama's choice is the riskier one (as I explained in my little conversation with cyrus): People will look at the ticket and wonder why the guy with the decades of experience has his name at the bottom instead of at the top. I don't think it will assuage anyone's fears about Obama's experience. Quite the opposite, I think Obama's choice shines a spotlight on his experience problem.

The only reason for her selection that one can imagine is the fact that she's a woman.

Not the only, but a leading one.

It is sooooo transparent! In my mind, McCain just got a foot shorter.

Why? Was it supposed to be a surprise? Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white man as his running mate? I wasn't surprised.

I would have bet a decent sum of money that McCain would pick a woman and a relatively young one at that (not that it would have been possible to pick an older one). She's younger than I expected, but I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Gokul43201]

Do you have any examples? That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question.

It's not a deep question at all. But it's a question that most any person in the M-P campaign can not answer honestly. The honest answer would be that among the field of candidates in contention (Palin, Giuliani, Romney, Crist, Lieberman, Ridge, Portman, Pawlenty, Huckabee, etc.) Palin was not the person more qualified than the rest by most anyone's standards. So, rather than answer that question, they would respond with something along the lines that Palin is more qualified than Obama or Biden.

Was it supposed to be a surprise?

Yes, it was. It was the pick McCain went with after he couldn't get either of the people he wanted: Lieberman or Ridge.

Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white mat as his running mate?

It would have been, if he picked an old white man with little qualifications to take over the place of the President.

 

[LowlyPion]

All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston )

This passage does nothing to dispel the 5th child rumor I must note:

On the part where it asks about children, he wrote, "I don't want kids."

Mark Okeson, the assistant principal at Wasilla High School, told the Chicago Tribune that Bristol started her junior year last fall, in the town where Sarah Palin grew up.

He said Bristol inexplicably transferred to an Anchorage high school midyear, leaving Levi behind.

"I never heard the story why," he said.

She left to transfer school the middle of last school year?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Do you have any examples?

Here is one of probably half a dozen seen over the last twenty-four hours.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/08/30/lkl.palin.panel.cnn?iref=videosearch

That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question (but a smart pundit should have the obvious answer ready: 'No, but I think the Presidential candidate, not the VP candidate, is the one who needs a few decades of experience').

Given McCains age, his possible replacement is of particular concern. One can argue that Obama doesn't have enough experience, but to argue for the requirement of experience, as McCain did, and then to pick a VP who is neither an intellectual giant nor an accomplished big-league politician - to literally throw a Hail Mary pass with the future of the country - is extremely reckless. Perhaps we will all soon see that McCain had some magical insight - that she is a true phenomenon, like Obama - but at this point the chances of that appear to be vanishingly small.

What is entertaining to me is seeing people who want it both ways. Somehow, for some, Palin's experience is a problem, but Obama's isn't. To me, on the experience issue, Obama's choice is the riskier one (as I explained in my little conversation with cyrus): People will look at the ticket and wonder why the guy with the decades of experience has his name at the bottom instead of at the top. I don't think it will assuage anyone's fears about Obama's experience. Quite the opposite, I think Obama's choice shines a spotlight on his experience problem. Not the only, but a leading one. Why? Was it supposed to be a surprise? Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white mat as his running mate? I wasn't surprised.

People recognize in Obama a once-in-a-lifetime leader. He comes with a rare and natural ability to inspire people. Given his intellect, his knowledge of the Constitution, his dedication to mostly the right side of the right issues, his rise to power in a powerful state, and esp now, given that he not only took down the Clintons but has also virtually revolutionized modern campaigning - making the contribution process more democratic than ever before - he is given a pass. He is a rare talent like none that I have seen before.

In effect I would have to agree that he doesn't have enought experience, that is, if we were considering an ordinary politician. But Obama is not an ordinary politician. In fact, by all accounts that I've heard, he was effectively drafted. As one Senator told him, [I can come up with a name but need to think about it] ~ "time sometimes selects you, and not the other way around".

Is Palin all that special? I see nothing to suggest this is the case. I do hear unbelievably inflated spin to make her more than she is. For example, McCains wife suggested that Palin has foreign policy experience, or that somehow she gets points, since Alaska is close to Russia. Frankly, some Republicans seem a bit desperate.

I would have bet a decent sum of money that McCain would pick a woman and a relatively young one at that (not that it would have been possible to pick an older one). She's younger than I expected, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Why; just to pick a woman?

 

[LowlyPion]

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

To a large degree this depends on your definition of whether life begins at conception as to whether there is any killing that goes on.

Personally I don't see it as murder, or killing, as you would characterize it. I think this is a matter of faith and in this regard I find the current Supreme Court trimester treatment adequate under law and an acceptable remedy to balance between the extreme positions on conception.

 

[Gokul43201]

Oh check this out now:

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) — Senior McCain adviser Carly Fiorina said Tuesday that Barack Obama, Joe Biden and other Democrats were engaging in sexist attacks on Sarah Palin, as Republicans continued to invoke Hillary Clinton to criticize the Democratic presidential ticket.

“I am appalled by the Obama campaign's attempts to belittle Governor Sarah Palin’s experience,” said Fiorina. “The facts are that Sarah Palin has made more executive decisions as a Mayor and Governor than Barack Obama has made in his life.

“Because of Hillary Clinton's historic run for the Presidency and the treatment she received, American women are more highly tuned than ever to recognize and decry sexism in all its forms. They will not tolerate sexist treatment of Governor Palin.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Pathetic!

 

[LowlyPion]

I think Palin would likely garner some votes from liberals if she'd have encouraged and covered up an abortion for a her daughter, taking the easy way out.

I wasn't aware that either party was comfortable with cover-ups. Ken Starr strutting around not all that long ago certainly chose to wrap himself in the mantle of seeking the truth, every bit as much as the nation demanded more of Nixon for his egregious acts of interference.

And as to her daughter, surely Sarah Palin knew about this several months ago and yet this is the first announcement of it - after her selection?

 

[LowlyPion]

Oh check this out now:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Pathetic!

Carly Fiorina judging other people's decisions?

Ms. HP?

Oh please, spare me.

 

[Cyrus]

Here is one of probably half a dozen seen over the last twenty-four hours.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/08/30/lkl.palin.panel.cnn?iref=videosearch



Given McCains age, his possible replacement is of particular concern. One can argue that Obama doesn't have enough experience, but to argue for the requirement of experience, as McCain did, and then to pick a VP who is neither an intellectual giant nor an accomplished big-league politician - to literally throw a Hail Mary pass with the future of the country - is extremely reckless. Perhaps we will all soon see that McCain had some magical insight - that she is a true phenomenon, like Obama - but at this point the chances of that appear to be vanishingly small.



People recognize in Obama a once-in-a-lifetime leader. He comes with a rare and natural ability to inspire people. Given his intellect, his knowledge of the Constitution, his dedication to mostly the right side of the right issues, his rise to power in a powerful state, and esp now, given that he not only took down the Clintons but has also virtually revolutionized modern campaigning - making the contribution process more democratic than ever before - he is given a pass. He is a rare talent like none that I have seen before.

In effect I would have to agree that he doesn't have enought experience, that is, if we were considering an ordinary politician. But Obama is not an ordinary politician. In fact, by all accounts that I've heard, he was effectively drafted. As one Senator told him, [I can come up with a name but need to think about it] ~ "time sometimes selects you, and not the other way around".

Is Palin all that special? I see nothing to suggest this is the case. I do hear unbelievably inflated spin to make her more than she is. For example, McCains wife suggested that Palin has foreign policy experience, or that somehow she gets points, since Alaska is close to Russia. Frankly, some Republicans seem a bit desperate.



Why; just to pick a woman?

I LOVEE how EVERY reporter on CNN AND MSNBC has been calling out the republicans when they dodge questions and run to 'obama is not qualified', and the reporters have ALL been saying, excuse me that was NOT the question. Please answer the question.

 

[LowlyPion]

For example, McCains wife suggested that Palin has foreign policy experience, or that somehow she gets points, since Alaska is close to Russia. Frankly, some Republicans seem a bit desperate.

The only thing right across the Alaskan Border - aside from Canada - are Siberian Eskimos.

I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as "foreign policy" experience.

 

[Cyrus]

Even better, John Stewart tonight commented about a reporter on FOXNEWS that made the same comment. He then coughed MORON and said you know...Alaska is also next to the north pole. So she also has foreign policy experience with santa clause.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh check this out now:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Pathetic!

Same ole same ole. Repeat a lie often enough and people will start to believe it. Do they really think that female Hillary supporters, or any female democrats for that matter, can be compelled to vote for a woman who would vote against just about every major "women's" issue, just by making accusations of sexism? Again, this speaks to McCains detachment from ordinary people - he really doesn't get it, does he!

One interesting spin on this: There is a group within the Republican party - mostly fundamentalists - who will not support a woman for a position like this. According to their beliefs, a woman's place is in the home. For one, though not fundamentalists in the classic sense, I have to wonder about groups like the hard-core Mormons, who may feel alienated anyway because of Romney's rejection.

 

[Astronuc]

Some interesting responses from voters (I heard just women) from New Hampshire.

Battleground New Hampshire Reacts To Palin
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94203299
by Tovia Smith

All Things Considered, September 2, 2008 · Arizona Sen. John McCain's choice for vice president is clearly a bid for female voters.

The campaign is hoping that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will help attract some all-important independents, as well as disappointed fans of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton — especially in key battleground states such as Ohio, Florida and New Hampshire.

But as voters begin to digest the news and get to know Palin, it seems as though her selection may hurt as well as help the McCain camp.

While some women in the fiercely independent state of New Hampshire say that McCain's pick is in line with his maverick image, others wonder whether Palin can lead while also caring for her large family. Still other women feel insulted by a decision they see as overtly catering to them.

. . . .

McCain Vetting Process Questioned
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94203296

Apparently Palin was given the same 70 question questionnaire that others were given. Beyond the fact that she's a woman, she's conservative, pro-life/anti-abortion, pro-gun, . . .

Right Has No Problems With Palin's Troubles
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94211467

But I would expect they would have trouble if it was a Democratic candidate.

 

[Evo]

Although Palin is probably the best thing for Obama, it looks like the betters believe either McCain will drop her or she will be forced to quit. She's been nicknamed "Shocking Sarah", but I think of her fondly as "Mommie Dearest".

From Bloomberg

McCain More Likely to Drop Palin, Bookmakers Say

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- The smart money thinks there's a better chance today than yesterday that John McCain will dump Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Before the Republican senator's presidential campaign disclosed the pregnancy of Palin's 17-year-old daughter, bookmakers in Britain and Ireland were offering 20-1 odds or higher on a bet that she would be forced off the ticket, meaning a 1 pound ($1.78) bet would pay 20 pounds. Now that same bet will pay no more than 8 pounds.

"While it is rare that a VP candidate gets dropped, it's not completely impossible,'' said Ken Robertson, political betting analyst at Paddy Power Plc, a Dublin-based gambling company. "Lots of our punters are betting `Shocking' Sarah's days are numbered,'' he added, using a nickname he came up with for the first-term Alaska governor.

The odds, based on wagers made online with Paddy Power and William Hill Plc and in their betting shops, also suggest that McCain is less likely to win the White House because of his vice-presidential running-mate choice, announced Aug. 29. Both gambling houses, along with rival Ladbrokes Plc, place Democrat Barack Obama, 47, as the favorite to triumph in the contest.

"Ever since he appointed her, people have stopped betting on McCain,'' said David Williams of Ladbrokes in London. "He went down like a sack of potatoes as far as the punters are concerned.''

continued

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080902/pl_bloomberg/azjwbcginwsg

 

[mheslep]

Although Palin is probably the best thing for Obama, it looks like the betters believe either McCain will drop her or she will be forced to quit. She's been nicknamed "Shocking Sarah", but I think of her fondly as "Mommie Dearest".

What about Gov. Palin justifies a cute comparison to child abuser Joan Crawford?

 

[turbo]

Palin has filed ethics charges against herself with Alaska's Personnel Board, in an attempt to derail the legislature's ethics investigation of her and put the matter in the hand of the 3-person board, the members of which she appointed. So far, she and her husband have refused to be deposed by the Legislature's special counsel Steve Branchflower. It seems that she has learned the Bush/Cheney tactics of the "unitary executive" quite well.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/514163.html

 

[Astronuc]

Here is an interesting insight into McCain and Palin.

What the Palin Pick Says, by DAVID BROOKS
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/opinion/02brooks.html?em

. . . .
When McCain met Sarah Palin last February, he was meeting the rarest of creatures, an American politician who sees the world as he does. Like McCain, Palin does not seem to have an explicit governing philosophy. Her background is socially conservative, but she has not pushed that as governor of Alaska. She seems to find it easier to work with liberal Democrats than the mandarins in her own party.

Instead, she seems to get up in the morning to root out corruption. McCain was meeting a woman who risked her career taking on the corrupt Republican establishment in her own state, who twice defeated the oil companies, who made mortal enemies of the two people McCain has always held up as the carriers of the pork-barrel disease: Young and Stevens.
. . . .

So at least he's been considering her for some time, and I have to give her points on her anti-corruption stance.

The Palin pick allows McCain to run the way he wants to — not as the old goat running against the fresh upstart, but as the crusader for virtue against the forces of selfishness.

If McCain wins, I hope that is the case.

My worry about Palin is that she shares McCain’s primary weakness — that she has a tendency to substitute a moral philosophy for a political philosophy.

Interesting observation.

If McCain is elected, he will face conditions tailor-made to foster disorder. He will be leading a divided and philosophically exhausted party. There simply aren’t enough Republican experts left to staff an administration, so he will have to throw together a hodgepodge with independents and Democrats. He will confront Democratic majorities that will be enraged and recriminatory.

Will he be able to work with both sides in Congress?

He really needs someone to impose a policy structure on his moral intuitions. He needs a very senior person who can organize a vast administration and insist that he tame his lone-pilot tendencies and work through the established corridors — the National Security Council, the Domestic Policy Council. He needs a near-equal who can turn his instincts, which are great, into a doctrine that everybody else can predict and understand.

Rob Portman or Bob Gates wouldn’t have been politically exciting, but they are capable of performing those tasks. Palin, for all her gifts, is not. She underlines McCain’s strength without compensating for his weaknesses. The real second fiddle job is still unfilled.

That's worrisome, and perhaps that's where Obama-Biden are much stronger.

The US needs to wind down the occupation of Iraq ASAP. Future administrations need to avoid the diplomacy-at-gunpoint and belligerent foreign policy of GW Bush.

And we have some significant domestic issues to deal with at home. It's time to put our house in order, and we shouldn't be going out and messing up someone else's.

 

[turbo]

What about Gov. Palin justifies a cute comparison to child abuser Joan Crawford?

For one thing, Palin claims that all human life is precious. Why, then, if her water broke in Texas did she give a speech and then take a trip back to Alaska that was certain get her home no sooner than 11-12 hours after her water broke? There was excellent medical care available in Texas. Furthermore, about 1/2 of Down Syndrome babies are born with some kind of heart problem, some of which require early surgical intervention if the child is to survive. Women who have had several children generally experience shorter and shorter labors, and there is really no way to tell in advance how quickly the labor will progress. She could have given birth on the plane, and if there had been complications, that might not have been good for the baby or for her. For many, many reasons (most related to the safety of the baby) she should have stayed in Texas for the delivery.

Believing in the sanctity of human life doesn't square well with that kind of recklessness.

 

[mheslep]

Thanks for the Brooks article Astronuc.

That's worrisome, and perhaps that's where Obama-Biden are much stronger.

Only in that McCain needs that political philosopher somewhere in his team, it need not be the VP, and historically the VP is not the number 2 guy running the show.

And we have some significant domestic issues to deal with at home. It's time to put our house in order, and we shouldn't be going out and messing up someone else's.

Agreed. The question is who's more likely to engage in foreign entanglements now. Despite of couple of bellicose statements by McCain on Iran, given his history and after backing the surge when it was unpopular, he has nothing to prove. Obama is going to be haunted by the 'is he up to it' question on matters of force to which I credit his loose cannon statements on Pakistan - trying to prove he's tough enough.

 

[Astronuc]

Agreed. The question is who's more likely to engage in foreign entanglements now. Despite of couple of bellicose statements by McCain on Iran, given his history and after backing the surge when it was unpopular, he has nothing to prove. Obama is going to be haunted by the 'is he up to it' question on matters of force to which I credit his loose cannon statements on Pakistan - trying to prove he's tough enough.

I hope either Obama or McCain don't feel the need to prove they are tough. We need a thoughtful and considerate foreign policy that maintains or enhances the national security, while respecting the rights of other peoples, and hopefully enhancing the essential trade and economic development. I think either McCain or Obama will be better than the current administration - but I'd like to see a lot better.

 

[seycyrus]

...
Believing in the sanctity of human life doesn't square well with that kind of recklessness.

What exactly are you implying here?

 

[seycyrus]

I fail to see why the intellectuals on this forum fail to go outside of their "safe zone" simply because they don't want to give a person on the opposing political party any slack.

Take the "Alaska is close to Russia" comment, for example.

Certainly it is understandable that proximity is one component of a state's interaction with another country.

Texas has more foreign interactions than Iowa for example. In the same vein, Alaska might have a higher foreign interaction than Illinois.

Other factors (such as Chicago's trade volume), might offset the proximity factor, but to simply dismiss the Alaska comment in a tongue-in-cheek manner is disingenuous.

 

[turbo]

What exactly are you implying here?

I'm not implying anything. She engaged in some reckless behavior that could have injured or even killed her unborn baby. That does not show good judgment on her part.

 

[LowlyPion]

Palin has filed ethics charges against herself with Alaska's Personnel Board, in an attempt to derail the legislature's ethics investigation of her and put the matter in the hand of the 3-person board, the members of which she appointed. So far, she and her husband have refused to be deposed by the Legislature's special counsel Steve Branchflower. It seems that she has learned the Bush/Cheney tactics of the "unitary executive" quite well.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/514163.html

On the one hand I see this ethics brouhaha as payback for Palin's attacks against the other Republicans in Alaska that has been under the guise of this fighting corrupt politicians.

But on the other hand what poor judgment on her part to get involved with a situation that automatically carries with it the appearance of impropriety - most especially given the actions of the rest of her family and the situation itself. You would think that the Governor of a state would have more important things to do than get involved in such a mundane issue - to let her personal concerns - that are guaranteed not objective on behalf of her sister - interfere with the execution of her supposed duties to the people of the state - that when you get down to it includes the obligation to support the interests of the brother-in-law as equally as her sister's.

In this regard this small minded involvement on her part suggests that she lacks the intellectual gravitas to effectively serve a nation that is more than 2 orders of magnitude more people than her state, operating in a global environment with another order of magnitude more people still. Such complexity surely demands more than involving her office in something so petty as seeking retribution on a former brother-in-law.

 

[LowlyPion]

Take the "Alaska is close to Russia" comment, for example.

Certainly it is understandable that proximity is one component of a state's interaction with another country.

Texas has more foreign interactions than Iowa for example. In the same vein, Alaska might have a higher foreign interaction than Illinois.

And what again is your argument? That Palin on the basis of exactly what foreign negotiation experience, proximity notwithstanding, or for that matter even travel abroad, makes her qualified to conduct and assess any foreign policy of the United States? Just where would you allege she has acquired any deep thoughts on foreign issues, when she has managed to mire herself in a situation mixing her official duties with her family's personal issues?