News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[turbo]

Beside, the PF sisterhood can turn Bob on anytime.

Let's not taunt Bob lest he turn on the sisterhood. It could get ugly.

 

[Evo]

I think this evolution of terminology has become discombobulated.

Beside, the PF sisterhood can turn Bob on anytime.

Oh, Bob knows not what he's getting into!

 

[Evo]

NOW against Palin

The National Organization for Women has offically spoken out against Palin as being against women's rights.

If McCain's intent was to get more women voters he has failed miserably.

Sen. John McCain's choice of Alaska governor Sarah Palin as his running mate is a cynical effort to appeal to disappointed Hillary Clinton voters and get them to vote, ultimately, against their own self-interest.

Gov. Palin may be the second woman vice-presidential candidate on a major party ticket, but she is not the right woman. Sadly, she is a woman who opposes women's rights, just like John McCain.

The fact that Palin is a mother of five who has a 4-month-old baby, a woman who is juggling work and family responsibilities, will speak to many women. But will Palin speak FOR women? Based on her record and her stated positions, the answer is clearly No.

In a gubernatorial debate, Palin stated emphatically that her opposition to abortion was so great, so total, that even if her teenage daughter was impregnated by a rapist, she would "choose life" -- meaning apparently that she would not permit her daughter to have an abortion.

Palin also had to withdraw her appointment of a top public safety commissioner who had been reprimanded for sexual harassment, although Palin had been warned about his background through letters by the sexual harassment complainant.

What McCain does not understand is that women supported Hillary Clinton not just because she was a woman, but because she was a champion on their issues. They will surely not find Sarah Palin to be an advocate for women.

Sen. Joe Biden is the VP candidate who appeals to women, with his authorship and championing of landmark domestic violence legislation, support for pay equity, and advocacy for women around the world.

http://www.now.org/press/08-08/08-29.html

 

[Math Is Hard]

That's right. McCain's has a shave over 250,000 supporters on facebook. Obama has a shave under 1.5 million supporters on facebook.

I wasn't making any particular point with that. That was simply a reply to rootX's post (below).

I don't think Palin/Cain use facebook.

Obama's biggest group has ~645,604 members (he's even on imeem )
Mc Cain less than 500

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The National Organization for Women has offically spoken out against Palin as being against women's rights.

If McCain's intent was to get more women voters he has failed miserably.



http://www.now.org/press/08-08/08-29.html

A friend of mine made a good point. She's going on the campaign trail and attempting to take office as VP even though she has a four month old child at home. While it would probably outrage his female supporters if Obama's campaign poked at this issue I have to wonder what all of the conservative Dr Laura fans would say about that. So far I can't find Dr Laura comments on Palin.

 

[WarPhalange]

Good point. Going all conservative gung-ho will be hard if she's not there taking care of her kid. What kind of mother is she?

Although you're right, Obama pointing it out would cost him a LOT more than it's worth. I wonder if he can get someone outside of the campaign to do it?

 

[mathwonk]

well this very interesting, and of course anything can happen. i have made numerous pessimistic statements because it is easier to bear good news when you have braced yourself for bad, but honestly, if the dems do not win by 10-15%, then america definitely lives down to its low international reputation.

as my younger son put it, if the republicans win this time, i can no longer even attempt to defend the US to my friends in europe.

i know i am hopeless optimist, but surely, the general electorate is not THIS stupid. only absolute nutcase right wingers can possibly vote for this team, right? i mean palin is a young phyllis schlaffly, and her state literally has a smaller population than cobb county, georgia, making her experience roughly that of the ceo of a moderate sized county.

 

[WarPhalange]

i know i am hopeless optimist, but surely, the electorate is not THIS stupid.

When I was interning last month I rode my bike to work. I got a flat one day. I was angry. Profanities were said. But then my friend said "Cheer up. It happened. Now you can rest easy knowing it won't happen again. I mean, what are the chances?"

It happened twice more. That same week.


Moral of the story? Don't tempt fate.

 

[Evo]

She's going on the campaign trail and attempting to take office as VP even though she has a four month old child at home.

And a "special needs" baby to boot. Not much for "family values". Apparently career comes before family. Can anyone say "hypocrite"?

 

[mathwonk]

sighhh...

 

[WarPhalange]

And a "special needs" baby to boot. Not much for "family values". Apparently career comes before family. Can anyone say "hypocrite"?

Yes. We've just become part of Rove's Smear Machine, but working the opposite end.


:(

 

[LowlyPion]

And a "special needs" baby to boot. Not much for "family values". Apparently career comes before family. Can anyone say "hypocrite"?

I think there will be more heard on the subject of her last baby. The rumor mill is likely already working that subject overtime right now.

 

[Evo]

Yes. We've just become part of Rove's Smear Machine, but working the opposite end.


:(

If she wasn't touting "family values" as being such an important part of her platform, it would be a different matter.

I made a very difficult decision to turn down a promotion I had been working for for years and quit my job to stay at home with my kids until they were 7 & 9. When I went back to work, I had to start over. It was an economic hardship, and something a lot of women simply cannot afford to do. Palin certainly can afford it. She has a job that affords her the ability to spend at least a decent amount of time with her baby, but she has opted to go on a grueling campaign instead. I personally cannot see going on a campaign of this nature with a 4 month old. I simply can't. I would have said, "thanks, but aside from the fact that I am not qualified, I have just had a baby". I think that will be an issue with a lot of women. That, of course, is her decision.

 

[mathwonk]

by the way, i am watching ms palin, and the first thing i noticed was someone has told her what my wife said about her hairdo, as it is already completely changed. i rest my case concerning what really matters in us elections.

keep your eye on the haircut. my wife predicts it will gradually get shorter.

 

[Evo]

by the way, i am watching ms palin, and the first thing i noticed was someone has told her what my wife said about her hairdo, as it is already completely changed. i rest my case concerning what really matters in us elections.

You really need to be careful MW, posts on PF appear minutes after they are posted. Your fashion tip may have cost Obama the election!

 

[Cyrus]

I hear Obama is going to have a sex change operation and bleach his skin white like Michael Jackson.

 

[mathwonk]

maybe, but i think we ought to get serious here. how about putting our money where our mouths are. is it appropriate to bet on the outcome? loser donates $1,000 to the forum? we could generate some serious cash.cyrus, you crack me up.

 

[castlegates]

And a "special needs" baby to boot. Not much for "family values". Apparently career comes before family. Can anyone say "hypocrite"?

Since when does family values mean the mom stays home with their kid? A mom running in a presidential campaign, shouldn't have to much difficulty finding capable people to help take care of the kids.

 

[turbo]

If she wasn't touting "family values" as being such an important part of her platform, it would be a different matter.

I personally cannot see going on a campaign of this nature with a 4 month old. I simply can't. I would have said, "thanks, but aside from the fact that I am not qualified, I have just had a baby". I think that will be an issue with a lot of women. That, of course, is her decision.

Is there any way that Evangelical women (or any other women) with special needs children will condone her candidacy? That's tough. A woman decides to carry a Down Syndrome baby to term at the age of 44 and shortly afterward decides to spend all her time not caring for that baby, but in trying to become VP of the United States. Maybe this is her first and only shot at the brass ring, but she made a choice last spring that involved the best interests of that special-needs baby, and now his interests seem to be not that important. Who is going to nurture that kid? Nannies?

 

[Math Is Hard]

In the past, she's just taken the baby to work with her.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/382560.html

This should be interesting on the campaign trail. Don't know if that will be do-able.

 

[Gokul43201]

And a "special needs" baby to boot.

This was the reason that I predicted way back in May, that she wouldn't accept even if she was offered the position. Guess I misjudged her.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1745302&postcount=44

How about Sarah Palin as a VP for McCain.

I doubt that she'd want to do it. She gave birth to a baby last month - her son had been diagnosed with Down Syndrome. It's already very difficult balancing governance with childcare.

 

[Evo]

Is there any way that Evangelical women (or any other women) with special needs children will condone her candidacy? That's tough. A woman decides to carry a Down Syndrome baby to term at the age of 44 and shortly afterward decides to spend all her time not caring for that baby, but in trying to become VP of the United States. Maybe this her first and only shot at the brass ring, but she made a choice last spring that involved the best interests of that special-needs baby, and now his interests seem to be not that important. Who is going to nurture that kid? Nannies?

Obviously as a career woman myself, you juggle work and family. But you don't do it with a tiny infant. And if you do, then you don't claim to be someone that puts family ahead in your life, that's dishonest, IMO.

In the past, she's just taken the baby to work with her.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/382560.html

This should be interesting on the campaign trail. Don't know if that will be do-able.

Men and women without infants almost crack from the strain, the incredibly long hours, the meetings, the dinners, the speeches. There is just so much time she will be separated from the baby. But, hey, she's obviously ok with with it.

 

[Gokul43201]

In the past, she's just taken the baby to work with her.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/382560.html

This should be interesting on the campaign trail. Don't know if that will be do-able.

The article only says that this is what she plans to do. I'm mildly curious to find out if she has been.

I was a little worried about her judgment, after reading about the Texas-Alaska flight, but having never been pregnant, I decided to give her the benefit of doubt. I've since heard the same concern been raised by others who have been pregnant.

 

[mathwonk]

i had a friend in college who decided to marry an extremely wealthy woman. when i went to wish him well, he was afraid to say a word, for fear of blowing it, and she had him sitting on a stool like a trained seal, responding only to her commands.

this is how mccain looks to me. its his last chance to marry a wealthy woman, (oops he already did that, so maybe now its power he wants), and he is afraid to say what he really thinks for fear of blowing it.

thats what his face looks like to me, my greedily expectant friend.

on the career side, i admit to going to work and leaving my 7 year old to let himself in the house after school alone for a couple hours.

 

[Evo]

I was a little worried about her judgment, after reading about the Texas-Alaska flight, but having never been pregnant, I decided to give her the benefit of doubt. I've since heard the same concern been raised by others who have been pregnant.

The more children you have, normally the shorter the time to delivery. A woman that has had 4 kids and her water breaks should be heading straight to the hospital. The reason is that once the water breaks, the baby is no longer protected by the amniotic sack, and also bacteria can get inside. Travel is absolutely advised against in this condition.

 

[LowlyPion]

Counterbalancing McCain’s reputation as a political dinosaur, Palin smoked pot when it was legal in Alaska, ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...ns/article4641030.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

 

[turbo]

Obviously as a career woman myself, you juggle work and family. But you don't do it with a tiny infant. And if you do, then you don't claim to be someone that puts family ahead in your life, that's dishonest, IMO.

She made a choice, and it seems like much of her conservative appeal is based on that choice to bring a Down Syndrome baby to term at age 44. How can she set aside her available time with that child to pursue the Vice Presidency? Down Syndrome children are often short-lived, though we are surely not privy to this child's prognosis. Even so, she has a prominent and well-compensated position (Governor of Alaska), so why should she perhaps sacrifice her potential time with this precious child and reject the blessing that she and her husband so publicly proclaimed? Will anybody ask this question?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Since when does family values mean the mom stays home with their kid? A mom running in a presidential campaign, shouldn't have to much difficulty finding capable people to help take care of the kids.

Many liberals would likely see it that way but 'traditional values' conservatives most often won't see it that way. My friend who pointed it out is very much liberal and even though she has not had a child she thinks its terrible.

 

[LowlyPion]

Miss Wasilla 1984:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g100/dayglored/Sarah-Palin-Miss-Wasilla-1984.jpg

 

[BobG]

And a "special needs" baby to boot. Not much for "family values". Apparently career comes before family. Can anyone say "hypocrite"?

Yes. We've just become part of Rove's Smear Machine, but working the opposite end.


:(

I can see membership in PUMA inching up as I speak.

Seriously, this would be a real delicate issue for Dems to attack.

 

[Evo]

I can see membership in PUMA inching up as I speak.

Oh, did you see the denouncement by NOW? That should turn a lot of PUMA's back to Obama.

Seriously, this would be a real delicate issue for Dems to attack

It seems this issue is already being brought up all over the interent.

 

[castlegates]

I think Palin is going to be attacked for minor details, and democrats are going to look pretty stupid in the attack of those details, but this will be of no surprise, as most liberals have the distinction of being emotional pigs (they can't help themselves). If the democrats can keep in check their sensitivities, and let the cards fall where they may in regards to Palin, Palin will likely self destruct on her own accord. Why shoot at someone who has practice shooting back?

 

[mathwonk]

huhhh? what's an emotional pig? did someone break your heart over an election?

 

[LowlyPion]

I think Palin is going to be attacked for minor details, and democrats are going to look pretty stupid in the attack of those details, but this will be of no surprise, as most liberals have the distinction of being emotional pigs (they can't help themselves). If the democrats can keep in check their sensitivities, and let the cards fall where they may in regards to Palin, Palin will likely self destruct on her own accord. Why shoot at someone who has practice shooting back?

I suspect she is already becoming yesterday's news at this point, though there are some interesting rumors that have cropped up that may take on a life of their own.

Surviving Gustov and the Republicans stumbling all over themselves in this election year to pretend how compassionate they are, and trying to get anyone to care they are having a convention will likely put the squeeze on going after her for now.

 

[castlegates]

I suspect she is already becoming yesterday's news at this point, though there are some interesting rumors that have cropped up that may take on a life of their own.

You mean the rumor about her son actually being her grandson?
Now that's entertainment!

Surviving Gustov and the Republicans stumbling all over themselves in this election year to pretend how compassionate they are, and trying to get anyone to care they are having a convention will likely put the squeeze on going after her for now.

If you are referring to Katrina, as if to say that republicans don't care about the people they represent, you might have a point, but that episode really can be explained, as Bush is and still is the dumbest president in my living memory. So they really do have a bonifide excuse for not being able to get water to a boat load of people for days on end. :-)

 

[wildman]

Many liberals would likely see it that way but 'traditional values' conservatives most often won't see it that way. My friend who pointed it out is very much liberal and even though she has not had a child she thinks its terrible.

I had dinner with some conservative friends and this was the issue that came up first and it was brought up by a woman. This will hurt her.

 

[edward]

I wonder how many groups this pic will offend.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-08/41999285.jpg

 

[wildman]

It is interesting that none of the usual conservative attack dogs are even trying to defend Palin. Guys?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I had dinner with some conservative friends and this was the issue that came up first and it was brought up by a woman. This will hurt her.

I'm not sure it will hurt her because I'm a woman and I'm a moderate conservative and I really don't give a rat's patoot how she raises her kid. All I care about is how well she can do the job. If she can do it with the little papoose strapped to her back, then rock on.

 

[LowlyPion]

This account is almost painful:

"Where do your children's names come from?

TODD: Sarah's parents were coaches and the whole family was involved in track and I was an athlete in high school, so with our first-born, I was, like, 'Track!' Bristol is named after Bristol Bay. That's where I grew up, that's where we commercial fish. Willow is a community there in Alaska. And then Piper, you know, there's just not too many Pipers out there and it's a cool name. And Trig is a Norse name for "strength.""
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685_2,00.html

I read elsewhere Piper's name is Piper Indy - named after their Piper Cub plane and Todd's snowmobile. The daughter named after the father's toys?

Sounds to me like the way stoners might name their kids.

Well at least they put a lot of thought into naming the kids.

 

[WarPhalange]

I don't think Barack Obama can play the "Your name sounds funny" card.

 

[Gokul43201]

Honestly, school of Journalism from Idaho?....What award winning journalists ever came out of that place?

Here you go Cyrus.

Bza63nnqiKA[/youtube] I rest my case! :biggrin:

 

[Gokul43201]

Evo, looks like you're going to love this one as well.

In 1996, Palin endorsed Pat Buchanan in 1996, ran fund-raisers for him and was his Alaska state director.

Buchanan loves her right back!

U9rZkJfKoEU[/youtube] Some quotes ...r.[/quote] (Right from the Beginning, p. 341)

 

[wildman]

Yay! All the better to do the shoppin', cookin' and cleanin' with.

Mexicans are the real liberators. We don't have to clean the house or weed the garden.

 

[Astronuc]

I think there will be more heard on the subject of her last baby. The rumor mill is likely already working that subject overtime right now.

Yeah - and that is so stupid.

Apparently the latest rumor is that Palin's youngest is her daughter's daughter.
Sarah Palin hit by internet rumours over fifth child

If Mrs Palin, a conservative mother of five, ever doubted that landing on a national presidential ticket would open her to the harshest of spotlights and smear tactics, she also awoke yesterday to utterly unfounded internet rumours that her fifth child, born in April with Down’s Syndrome, was actually her 17-year-old daughter’s.

The Times article does mention some other important issues, e.g. Palin campaigned as governor in favor of the 'Bridge to Nowhere', then as governor, she changed her position. Of course, the Republicans/conservatives love to point out flip-flops by Obama or Kerry. But that is entirely disingenous, since Republican politicians are just as likely to flip-flop.

When she made her debut speech on Friday she immediately touted her success in killing off the infamous “Bridge to Nowhere”, which would have connected Gravina Island with Ketchikan international airport, a project that had become a nationwide symbol of the wasteful, pork-barrel spending that Mr McCain has made a cornerstone of his campaign.

Yet in a first unsettling revelation – which the McCain camp will hope does not become a pattern – the Anchorage Daily News reported yesterday that when she ran for governor Mrs Palin campaigned on a “build the bridge” platform. The newspaper, in a reference to John Kerry’s alleged “flip-flopping” in the 2004 presidential campaign, said: “Palin was for the Bridge before she was against it.”

Even her mother-in-law, Faye Palin, who said she was still thinking of voting for Mr Obama, sounded sceptical. She said: “I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket, other than she’s a woman and a conservative.”

A lot of people are viewing the selection of Palin as nothing more than a bid to attract women, conservatives and evangelicals - rather than her being selected based on qualification.

Although she made a clear bid for suburban mothers and disaffected Hillary Clinton supporters on Friday, her choice has thrilled and energised conservative Republicans and evangelicals, solving in a stroke Mr McCain’s struggle to motivate his base, whose turnout will be crucial in battleground states such as Ohio and Michigan.

This is a rather surreal election year.

 

[Evo]

There will be a Vice-Presidential Debate held at Washington University in St louis On Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8pm.

I can't wait for that!

 

[Astronuc]

There will be a Vice-Presidential Debate held at Washington University in St louis On Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8pm.

I can't wait for that!

I wonder how much will be foreign policy/international relations vs domestic, and issues like energy, women's rights, economic policy, environmental protection, separation of church and state, . . . .

Any info on the moderator(s)/panelists?

 

[LowlyPion]

This is a rather surreal election year.

I wonder if it is too late to copyright all this for a screen play?

All we need now are a couple of Phil Graham type gaffes from Palin to really spike the recipe.

 

[Evo]

I wonder how much will be foreign policy/international relations vs domestic, and issues like energy, women's rights, economic policy, environmental protection, separation of church and state, . . . .

Any info on the moderator(s)/panelists?

Gwen Ifill, a longtime correspondent and moderator for public broadcasting programs The NewsHour and Washington Week, has been selected to moderate the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate at Washington University in St. Louis, the CPD has announced.

http://debate.wustl.edu/media.php

 

[Astronuc]

"Soulmates"? How John McCain and Sarah Palin differ on the issues
http://timesonline.typepad.com/uselections/2008/09/john-mccain-say.html

Hmmmm.

Big names absent from John McCain's Republican convention
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4648652.ece

The party [GOP / RNC] meeting here is demoralised and divided. There is a pro-business lobby, an anti-immigration lobby, the Religious Right and a libertarian streak that is embodied by Ron Paul, the cranky former presidential candidate.

. . . .

The absence of President Bush and Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, on storm duty is a different matter. They are not the only Republicans choosing to stay away.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California, is also indicating that he will not be at the podium for a primetime speaking slot tonight if his state’s budget crisis remains unresolved.

And at least ten incumbent senators have announced that they are not coming, including Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar who have been noticeably kind to Barack Obama’s campaign in recent weeks. . . .

Now that's interesting.

Polls that show that Mr Obama got a bounce of perhaps seven points from the Democratic convention do not fully take account of the energy surrounding him as 84,000 people at Invesco Field stadium and a record-breaking TV audience of up to 40 million watched his speech.

Conservative MP Simon Burns says: I’m a Tory Democrat
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4639738.ece