Win ISEF: My MagLev Train Idea for Energy & Transportation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a proposed project for the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF) involving a MagLev train concept that operates within an evacuated tube to eliminate air resistance. Participants explore the feasibility of this idea, its potential advantages, and the challenges associated with its implementation, including economic considerations and technological limitations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that eliminating air pressure in addition to friction could allow MagLev trains to achieve very high speeds with less energy.
  • Another participant questions the economic feasibility of such a large-scale project, suggesting it would cost billions and may not be cheap to create.
  • Concerns are raised about the current vacuum technology's capability to evacuate air from a large volume, with one participant expressing skepticism about the project's feasibility.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of research and calculations to assess the physical and economic viability of the proposal before further investment of time and resources.
  • There are discussions about the relevance of competition outcomes for university admissions, with differing opinions on the importance of winning competitions versus other factors like grades and extracurricular activities.
  • A participant shares their personal context as an international student from a developing country, highlighting their reliance on ISEF as a significant opportunity due to limited local competition options.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of support and skepticism regarding the feasibility of the proposed MagLev train project. While some encourage the idea and suggest further exploration, others raise significant doubts about its practicality and economic viability. No consensus is reached on the project's feasibility or the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for detailed calculations regarding vacuum technology, infrastructure costs, and energy requirements, indicating that these factors remain unresolved and critical to the project's assessment.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in physics, engineering, and transportation technology, particularly those exploring innovative transportation solutions and the challenges of large-scale infrastructure projects.

Newtonsstudent
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Hey PF,
I want to precipitate ISEF (The Intel International Science and Engineering Fair) this year, there's an idea that came up in my mind during studying MagLev trains in physics, since high speeds are achieved in MagLev trains due to the elimination of friction, what if air pressure was also eliminated by placing the train in an air evacuated tube, I think this will allow the train to achieve ultimate speeds without much energy.
The advantages of these trains that it is super fast, safe, and relatively cheap, it could replace commercial planes one day. It's just an idea right now, I'm still gong to work hard on it if it's worth it. I'm going to explain the exact physics of this train and the engineering of its tubes, and the economics of its infrastructure, and how it could save a lot of money and time. I'm looking forward to winning a placing in ISEF this year so I could apply to a top university.
I need your opinions guys, do you have ideas to make this project distinctive, could it win the best of the "Energy and Transportation" category? and what is my actual chance of winning a placing in ISEF, and how can I increase my chance ?
 
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Newtonsstudent said:
I'm looking forward to winning a placing in ISEF this year so I could apply to a top university.
This is not the reason to do competitions like this... You don't have to place in some competition to get into a top school. Good grades, extracurriculars, test scores, a bit of luck are probably more important (to my limited knowledge - if someone else thinks I'm wrong, correct me please)

Also, when I read your description, all I could think about what just how similar this is to Elon Musk's hyper loop idea. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

A project of this magnitude would cost billions and billions of dollars. Probably not economically feasible. It would not be cheap to create this - how can you argue this will be cheap?

I'm not sure we have the vacuum technology either to take air out of a volume that huge. Do we? 1000 miles of track and a cross section of 10^2pi ft^2 is an enormous volume to take air out of. I don't think it's feasible, but I'll wait for an expert to weigh in. An assumed radius of 10ft is probably too small, but to give you an idea of the project to tackle.

Edit to add: you don't need to bump your thread after 2 hours. Give people time.
 
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F=qE said:
This is not the reason to do competitions like this... You don't have to place in some competition to get into a top school. Good grades, extracurriculars, test scores, a bit of luck are probably more important (to my limited knowledge - if someone else thinks I'm wrong, correct me please)
yeah sure, but I also think an international prize will also make a great difference.
F=qE said:
Edit to add: you don't need to bump your thread after 2 hours. Give people time.

I didn't it, actually I reposted my topic in the general discussion forum because I thought the academic guidance wasn't for my topic but some admin deleted it from the general discussion and put it on aced amid guidance so it appears twice on the same forum.
 
F=qE said:
I'm not sure we have the vacuum technology either to take air out of a volume that huge. Do we? 1000 miles of track and a cross section of 10^2pi ft^2 is an enormous volume to take air out of. I don't think it's feasible, but I'll wait for an expert to weigh in. An assumed radius of 10ft is probably too small, but to give you an idea of the project to tackle.
So you are implying that it is impossible ?
 
I was referring to your 2 hour later second post of "anyone?"

And yes I'm sure it will help. But I think the other factors I listed are a little more fundamental to how well you will do in college. I had no competition like this, only some statewide math competitions and I got into a good school for undergrad. (I'd say and most would agree it counts as "top")
Newtonsstudent said:
So you are implying that it is impossible ?
I'm saying you should research and see if your proposal is even possible. I don't know if it is, but sounds kind of grandiose. Do some google searches, some order of magnitude calculations and see. Maybe try to find out how many vacuum pumps would be needed to keep that volume in vacuum. How much fuel would it use? How much would that cost? Things like that are important in an inphastructure project of that size.

I digress and will let an expert take it from here. Good luck to you. I just wanted to point those 2 things out.
 
F=qE said:
I was referring to your 2 hour later second post of "anyone?"

And yes I'm sure it will help. But I think the other factors I listed are a little more fundamental to how well you will do in college. I had no competition like this, only some statewide math competitions and I got into a good school for undergrad. (I'd say and most would agree it counts as "top")I'm saying you should research and see if your proposal is even possible. I don't know if it is, but sounds kind of grandiose.

I'm an international student, living in a developing country, so I don't have much on my resume except for some great grades, but other than that nothing, competitions, and extracurricular activities aren't offered much in my country so I think ISEF is my only hope now. :sad:
 
Newtonsstudent said:
I'm an international student, living in a developing country, so I don't have much on my resume except for some great grades, but other than that nothing, competitions, and extracurricular activities aren't offered much in my country so I think ISEF is my only hope now. :sad:
Gotcha. And great grades are a great place to start.

By all means, go for it :). Do some order of magnitude calculations though to see if this idea is possible physically and economically before you get too invested with it. Or wait for some other experts that know more than me to chime in :)
 
F=qE said:
Gotcha. And great grades are a great place to start.

By all means, go for it :). Do some order of magnitude calculations though to see if this idea is possible physically and economically before you get too invested with it. Or wait for some other experts that know more than me to chime in :)
Experts like engineers ?
 
  • #10
Where can I get that kind of help from ??
Can I ask on physics forums for that kind of help ??
 

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