Work by an ideal gas, thermodynamics

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the work done by an ideal gas during a thermodynamic cycle involving isothermal processes. The original poster provides specific conditions at points D and B, along with equations related to the ideal gas law and work calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate work for specific segments of the gas cycle using the ideal gas law and integration methods. Some participants question the correctness of the formulas used and the assumptions regarding the gas constant. Others suggest considering the graphical representation of the process to understand the work done.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem and questioning the original poster's approach. Some guidance has been offered regarding the integration of pressure and volume, but no consensus has been reached on the correct method or values.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of specific equations for the lines on the graph, which may affect the calculation of work. There is also mention of potential confusion regarding the gas constant used in the calculations.

v0id19
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Homework Statement


abcd.jpg

At point D: P=2atm, T=360K, n=2mol
At point B: V=3VD, P=2Pc
Paths AB and CD represent isothermal processes
The gas is carried through a complete cycle along the path DABCD. Determine the total amount of work done by the gas.

Homework Equations


PV=nRT
W=nRT*ln(V2/V1) (by integration)

The Attempt at a Solution


I only need the work for the two curved sections (because the work by the vertical ones is zero). Using a system of equations, I determined the following (in the form PV=nRT):
A: Pa*29.6=2*R*721
B: (4/3)*88.8=2*R*721
C: (2/3)*88.8=2*R*360
D: 2*29.6=2*R*360

Using the work equation, I get Wab=-130J and Wcd=64.9J

But the solutions in my book say I should have -13.2kJ and 6.58kJ, respctively


I am pretty sure I solved for the variables correctly; am I not using the correct formula to find work? Or is there something I've missed...
 
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Hi v0id19! :smile:
v0id19 said:
PV=nRT
W=nRT*ln(V2/V1) (by integration)

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the problem, but isn't work done = ∫PdV, the area inside the graph? :confused:
 
yes, but I don't have any of the equations for the lines on the graph.
using the energy equation (E=Qin+W). for an isothermal process E=0, so Qin=-W, and W=PdV=∫(nRT)/V*dV=nRT*ln(V2/V1)
 
actually--i just redid the problem, it turns out i was using the wrong gas constant R...
 
Hi v0id19! :smile:

(just got up :zzz: …)
v0id19 said:
yes, but I don't have any of the equations for the lines on the graph.

But you are given the width and height of the region as proportions of the (x,y) coordinates of D. :wink:

(and, assuming AB and DC are meant to be "parallel", the area is width times height)
 

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