Work done due to static friction in a boat-man system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the work done due to static friction in a boat-man system, particularly focusing on whether the net work done by static friction should be zero when considering the internal forces between the man and the boat. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical calculations related to forces and displacements in a frictionless environment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the net work done by static friction in a boat-man system should be zero, given that static friction acts as an internal force between the man and the boat.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the calculations that lead to the conclusion that the work does not add up to zero.
  • A participant attempts to prove the initial claim by calculating the displacements of the boat and the man, noting that the static friction forces are equal and opposite, yet the work done does not sum to zero.
  • Another participant challenges the calculations, asking what force the man exerts on the boat to initiate movement and to stop, suggesting that the friction force does not perform work since the man and the boat do not move relative to each other during the interaction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the work done by static friction should be zero. There is no consensus reached, as some participants challenge the calculations while others maintain their stance on the work done not summing to zero.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the calculations, including assumptions about the reference frame and the nature of static friction as an internal force. The mathematical steps leading to the conclusion that the work does not add up to zero remain unresolved.

Nikhil Rajagopalan
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In a classic problem where a man walks along the length of a boat floating on the surface of water without friction, Should the net work done due to static friction between the man and the boat be zero. If the length of the boat is L, its mass being M, and the mass of the man being m, the displacements the boat and the man undergo could be calculated as mL / (M+m) and ML / (M+m) respectively. If F is the static friction between the boat and the man, it should be equal and opposite to the boat and the man. On calculating the net work done by the static friction on the boat - man system using F * displacement, even though the signs are opposite, it doesn't add up to zero.

Is the work done by static friction on a system of particles always zero,if the static friction acts only as internal force between the particles? If so, why is it not apparently verified mathematically.
 
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Nikhil Rajagopalan said:
it doesn't add up to zero
Oh ? Can you show that ?
 
BvU , thank you for attending my query. On trying to prove it, i used the expressions for displacements of the boat and the man, +mL / (M+m) and -ML / (M+m) respectively ,calculated from an external point of reference. The static friction exerted by boat on the man and the man on the boat should be the same, equal and opposite. The product of force and displacement in both the cases here does not add up to zero. I am not certain if i am missing anything vital here.
 
I don't see a calculation that ends up not zero ?
What force does the man exercise on the boat to get moving ? What force to stop ?
After his walk, both boat and man are stationary. No kinetic energy is present, just like before.
Note that the friction force itself does no work: boat and shoes do not move wrt each other (assuming no slipping) wile the man exerts force on the boat to accelerate or decelerate.
 

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