Work-Energy Principle: Pulley System

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a pulley system involving two masses, M and m, where the original poster seeks to determine the downward speed of mass m in relation to its height from the ground, under the assumption of no friction.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply both Newton's laws and the Work-Energy principle to analyze the system. They express confusion regarding the relationship between the work done by tension on the two masses and the resulting equations for speed.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different interpretations of the problem, with some questioning the correctness of the original poster's calculations. There is acknowledgment of varying speeds for the masses, and some participants offer affirmations and clarifications without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of an answer from a textbook that aligns with one of the approaches taken by the original poster, but discrepancies in reasoning and assumptions about the forces involved are being discussed.

matineesuxxx
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Homework Statement


(see attatchment)

We know masses M and m, and I am trying to describe the downward speed of m in terms of the height from the ground. There is no friction

Homework Equations



[itex]\sum \text{F} = ma[/itex]
[itex]W_{\text{total}} = \Delta K = \int \text{F} \cdot d\text{s}[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution



I first need to note that the distance moved by [itex]M[/itex] is half of that moved by [itex]m[/itex] and thus the acceleration of [itex]M[/itex] is half that of [itex]m[/itex], or [itex]a_M = a_m/2[/itex].

I first solved the problem using only Newtons laws, so from the FBD I solved for the acceleration of [itex]m[/itex]:

$$a_m = v\frac{dv}{dh} = \frac{mg}{M/4 + m} \implies v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{M/4 + m}}$$

Now if I use the Work-Energy principle, I get that [itex]W_{\text{total}} = W_{\text{tension}_x} + W_{\text{tension}_y} + W_g[/itex].

This is where I think I am not understanding something:

Work done by tension on [itex]M[/itex] is equal to the work done by tension on [itex]m[/itex] even though force of tension on [itex]M[/itex] is twice that of the force of tension on [itex]m[/itex] because it travels half the distance, and since tension acting on [itex]m[/itex] is acting opposite the direction of motion, it is negative, so [itex]W_{\text{tension}_x} = -W_{\text{tension}_y}[/itex], so

$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$
so

[itex]v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{m+M}}[/itex]

I am not sure what I am missing that gives me [itex]m+M[/itex] instead of [itex]m + M/4[/itex] in the denominator. I would appreciate some help!

Thanks

[EDIT] The answer in the back of the book is the same as the answer I got using Newtons laws
 

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matineesuxxx said:
$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$

The masses are moving with different speeds .
 
Last edited:
Tanya Sharma said:
The masses are moving with different speeds .

Hah, wow. Total brain fart there. Thank you very much!
 
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .
 
Tanya Sharma said:
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .

How is that? It's the same as in the book as well
 
Sorry ... its correct .
 
Thanks for your help.
 
You are welcome :)
 

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