Worldbuilding: Is it possible to have a world without sulfur and charcoal?

[Oleran]

Hi All,
First post here. I'll get straight to the point. Thinking about ideas for a novel. Would it be theoretically possible to have a world without sulfur and charcoal? The idea would be a planet targeted for colonization that doesn't have elements needed for gunpowder. What are the possibilities with this and what are some impacts that might result?
Thanks,
Oleran

 

[phinds]

Hi All,
First post here. I'll get straight to the point. Thinking about ideas for a novel. Would it be theoretically possible to have a world without sulfur and charcoal? The idea would be a planet targeted for colonization that doesn't have elements needed for gunpowder. What are the possibilities with this and what are some impacts that might result?
Thanks,
Oleran

Do you seriously think that a civilization advanced enough to be colonizing another planet would be bothered by the lack of gunpowder?

 

[Bandersnatch]

Hi, and welcome.

The main problem here is that both C and S are among the most common elements in the universe. Every planet can be expected to contain those in abundance. You would need to devise a mechanism for them to be inaccessible, but I can't think of one, owing to their ubiquity.

 

[Oleran]

Thanks, all. I'm so much not a science person it's ridiculous, hah. I have a different question somewhat related, I guess? Anyone know anything about the possibility of a shoulder-fired electromagnetic rail gun? At the moment, it's only possible to get these things on ships. In a fantasy world you could just stick one of these in a soldier's hands and construct some kind of worldbuilding rule around it...but realistically, that seems pretty unrealistic?

 

[Bandersnatch]

People build railguns in their gardens as science projects. They don't have to be humongous, same as not every gun must be a naval gun. I think it's within reason that with sufficient technological advancement and maybe a bit of hand-waving, a portable version that is both effective and safe to use could be constructed.

 

[Oleran]

You're awesome, thanks!

 

[essenmein]

In addition to both Carbon and Sulfur being quite common, I'd be curious what your proposed life forms would be made from if its not Carbon based...

 

[phinds]

The main problem here is that both C and S are among the most common elements in the universe. Every planet can be expected to contain those in abundance. You would need to devise a mechanism for them to be inaccessible, but I can't think of one, owing to their ubiquity.

In addition to both Carbon and Sulfur being quite common, I'd be curious what your proposed life forms would be made from if its not Carbon based...

Guys I don't think he had the aliens' composition, or the abundance of elements in mind so much, as that for some reason, he just wanted to know what would happen if they couldn't make gunpowder, which, as I pointed out in post #2 is not really a very meaningful question.

@Oleran you want to jump in here with clarification?

 

[Oleran]

Yep, mainly just curious about the gunpowder concept. Very helpful, totally nixed the idea that spawned the question and moved on to more realistic things ;) Thanks.

 

[member 656954]

In a fantasy world you could just stick one of these in a soldier's hands and construct some kind of worldbuilding rule around it...but realistically, that seems pretty unrealistic?

There are a couple of tools for sci-fi authors, @Oleran, that suit your situation well.

Handwavium is as the name suggests, some kind of plot device where you essentially duck any attempt at actual physics and provide just enough technobabble to make it seem plausible. Many tropes are established that assist with this, including handheld weapons of ridiculous power. A handheld railgun is not even an imaginative stretch, to be honest, and I use one in the story I'm just about finished (yay!) with a mere paragraph of detail to make it seem plausible:

"Tin’s armory was very much as I had expected. There was no plasma cannon, but there was a nifty short-barreled rifle that used some fancy electronics to shrink a linear accelerator into a portable package that fired tiny slugs of gadolinium at about five times the speed of sound with only a slight whine to give the attacker away. The rifle traded bullet mass for muzzle velocity allowing for a much larger magazine than you would normally have with an automatic weapon of similar size. Tin dived into technical detail about gadolinium’s powerful magnetic moment, unpaired electrons, long electron-spin relaxation time, and something about symmetric S-states, while assuring me that the capacitor would last for our intended engagement, but I kept my skeptical face in place because until I tried it, I refused to believe it."​

The other tool is unobtanium, which is some kind of impossible material that you use to glue your narrative together. Think of what makes a space elevator possible, and you're into unobtanium territory. Graphene is often presented in an unobtanium way, but it can be as exotic as force fields or as mundane sounding as Neal Asher's chainglass, which is an impossibly strong version of glass that has all sorts of fun uses in his novels. My current favorite is metallic hydrogen, which (of course ) I also use in my story:

"Now, Eric was racing sunward, eight prodigious engines copiously liberating their metallic hydrogen fuel stocks to boost four hundred billion-odd tons of mass toward Earth at sixty klicks a second. I’d calculated the force being generated to achieve that little trick, and it was staggering. Tin was blithely talking about engines that could keep the lights on in a mid-sized country for a decade. It was staggering what you could do with limitless solar power, an endless ocean of raw materials, and Egan-era technology. In ninety days, Eric would gently roll over and that exceptional thrust would be applied to shed just over half our speed and match Earth in its orbit. Tin had assured me we would not notice this, just as we could not notice our current acceleration, because against that much mass, the applied force was barely two-tenths of a gee."​

The thing is though, if your characters are boring and your narrative uninteresting, then all the handwavium and unobtanium won't save your novel from being a stinker. So that's the thing to get right, the scicene-ish aspect needs to support the plot, not generally be the plot.

 

[Oleran]

Thanks! Handwavium, hah. Love it.

 

[stefan r]

Some guys made a backyard rail gun hear on Earth. In this video they shoot a piggy bank sitting on a physics textbook. They also shoot ballistics gel. Their setup has around 115 kilograms mass but that might be fine on planets with lower gravity. Here they have a 450 kg robotic tank shooting up cake ingredients.

The US Navy had BAE build a fairly a big one. The stuff that looks like propellant is actually aluminum spatter.

Lets not forget slingshots, trebuchets, and crossbows.

 

[hmmm27]

Carbon's a pretty basic requirement to accomplish things like building more colonists.

 

[phinds]

Carbon's a pretty basic requirement to accomplish things like building more colonists.

Again, missing the point of the OP. See post #9

 

[Nik_2213]

Lack of convenient sulphur suggests the wrong sort of volcanism, hence mild or no plate tectonics. But, sulphur is also available from 'foul' oil and pyrite minerals. From wiki, "Native sulfur is synthesised by anaerobic bacteria acting on sulfate minerals such as gypsum in salt domes"

If you don't have 'woody' stuff to conveniently carbonise, perhaps your carbon-cycle plants have a siliceous matrix. Our grasses etc have silica phytoliths, but this would be on a different scale, resembling coral or petrified timber, with the 'live' material spread thin within to thwart environmental hazards such as fire, pests or grazers...

Gunpowder also needs nitrates. Gun-cotton would need eg nitric acid...

 

[Klystron]

Many authors eliminate gunpowder in order to further story arcs and plot lines. Virtually the entire 'Sword and Sorcery' genre within F&SF (fantasy and science fiction) eliminates or inhibits the use of firearms without removing sulphur or carbon. Some ideas:

• The 'rules' of the the fictional universe do not permit firearms to function. Example: Roger Zelazny's "Chronicles of Amber". The plot of the second original Amber novel, "Guns of Avalon" centers on Prince Corwin overcoming lack of gunpowder after discovering an analog to potassium nitrate that ignites in Amber; originally to depose his elder brother Eric but ultimately to save the Realm.
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• Gunpowder formulae and firearms technology has long been forgotten and lost. Example: H. G. Wells "The Time Machine". Miller's "Canticle for Leibowitz".
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• The fictional society is advanced enough for metallurgy including swords, knives and armor but firearms have not been invented. Gunpowder remains in the realm of entertainment including fireworks and flash powders or engineering for mining operations. Examples: take your pick. Virtually any F&SF story that respects history set between ~~40,000 BCE and ~1300 CE when 'cannons and hand-cannons' became common on European and Asian battlefields.
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• 'Gun control' laws actually work and the entire citizenry remains unarmed including law enforcement. Also includes Utopias where peace and love preclude need for weapons.
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• Firearms exist, possibly in profusion; but some characters remain immune to bullets. Example: many supernatural characters including the Undead. Superman and Supergirl. The incredible Hulk. Golems (created by a rabbi. Not to be confused with deranged hobbits ).
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• The fictional society lives where explosions and firearm discharges might destroy their habitat. Example: most realistic space operas. Heinlein's "Orphans of the Sky". Gene Roddenberry's original Star Trek series. Many others.
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• Magical or Mathematical Worlds where firearms do not exist. Example: Charles Dodgson's "Wonderland" stories. Most L. Frank Baum "Oz" stories. Fairyland.

 

[hmmm27]

Plenty of stuff to fill a gunpowder-shaped hole : pneumatic, steam, spring, aforementioned coil/railgun...

Why is the lack of gunpowder important ?

 

[Rive]

Would it be theoretically possible to have a world without sulfur and charcoal? The idea would be a planet targeted for colonization that doesn't have elements needed for gunpowder.

Planets lacking C and S are not supposed to be targets for colonization, since such planets cannot support (human) life.

 

[snorkack]

You could easily have a world without charcoal if there is no fire. But that would be an issue with cooking, and human digestion.
Where is sulphur found on Earth? Not everywhere, many areas needed to import sulphur for gunpowder.