Would You Work for No Pay If It Was Something You Enjoyed?

[pattylou]

On the "what is wrong with capitalism" thread in PWA, some contributors suggest that in a communist/anarchist/socialist/whateverist society, no one would work because they wouldn't need to. The argument says something like: everyone would lie around all day and let the state take care of them.

I'm curious if you would work (ie contribute to the common good) for no pay, if that work was something you enjoyed doing. Would you enjoy building houses if it was just for the sake of providing shelter? Cooking? Cleaning?

Take the poll. Apologies in advance for the options I forgot. mention them in your responses.

Public poll, multiple responses allowed. Yo mamma, some people are *so* impatient.

 

[JamesU]

what poll...?

 

[cronxeh]

Well since I'm fascinated head-over-heels with Biology, I'd probably do farming and maybe if I'm an MD then I'd be a physician too. I think as technology becomes more and more advanced, we'd be able to move to such society and eliminate the need to work 40 hours a week. Perhaps we'd be able to slow down and just enjoy life's simple pleasures in the future, but that outlook is too optimistic considering our society

 

[Gokul43201]

Well since I'm fascinated head-over-heels with Biology, I'd probably do farming and maybe if I'm an MD then I'd be a physician too. I think as technology becomes more and more advanced, we'd be able to move to such society and eliminate the need to work 40 hours a week. Perhaps we'd be able to slow down and just enjoy life's simple pleasures in the future, but that outlook is too optimistic considering our society

It's people working 40 (or more) hours a week that makes technology "more and more advanced".

 

[russ_watters]

I voted "other". I have a number of hobbies I'd pursue, such as golf, astrophotography, skydiving, skiing, sailing, and flying.

 

[Smasherman]

I don't really know if I'd enjoy many of those because I've never been exposed to them. Nothing there except hunting strikes me as terribly unpleasant, however, and I'd hunt if it were absolutely necessary (ie, to control populations until a different measure can be put in place).

 

[pattylou]

In case it wasn't clear, I tried to identify the basic *needs* that a society would need to meet --- Shelter, clothing, food, etc.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I checked Education/Child Care, Healthcare, and Other.
Under other I would pursue artistic endevours and writing.

 

[cefarix]

Other = Software programming

 

[cronxeh]

In case it wasn't clear, I tried to identify the basic *needs* that a society would need to meet --- Shelter, clothing, food, etc.

I agree completely. But as Gokul pointed it out, we are not yet ready for that. I don't think we will be in my lifetime anyway

 

[loseyourname]

Well, some amount of farming, carpentry/construction, education, health care, and cleaning I've already done for no pay, along with artistic/writing pursuits (although it seems to go without saying to me that most people who do these do them for no pay). I would not be willing to do any of these things full-time for no pay, however. I would gladly build and maintain my own home, and probably write full time given a communist paradise (assuming they allow writers who don't contribute to any state interest).

Actually, I'd be willing to run workshops for people learning to write as well, but again, not full-time.

 

[Pengwuino]

Hmm... living in a world with only basic needs? BORING.

 

[Smurf]

I voted "other". I have a number of hobbies I'd pursue, such as golf, astrophotography, skydiving, skiing, sailing, and flying.

Finally proof that Russ understanding of english doesn't include "contribute to the common good".

 

[Pengwuino]

Finally proof that Russ understanding of english doesn't include "contribute to the common good".

What does that have to do with the english language.

 

[Smurf]

Hmm... living in a world with only basic needs? BORING.

Patty's understanding of anarcho-socialist thought it rough at best. Most would suggest that any need for which there is a demand in the community could and probably will be met.

 

[Smurf]

Well, some amount of farming, carpentry/construction, education, health care, and cleaning I've already done for no pay, along with artistic/writing pursuits (although it seems to go without saying to me that most people who do these do them for no pay). I would not be willing to do any of these things full-time for no pay, however. I would gladly build and maintain my own home, and probably write full time given a communist paradise (assuming they allow writers who don't contribute to any state interest).

Actually, I'd be willing to run workshops for people learning to write as well, but again, not full-time.

Also the term "no-pay" is not entirely accurate. To generally gloss over it's a matter of the community taking care of you (provide you with shelter, food, sex, drugs and rock and roll) and you contribute to the community (various things mentioned above)

 

[Smurf]

What does that have to do with the english language.

I don't know. I was going to say vocabulary then I realized that didn't make sense as it was more than one word so I just roughed it.

 

[Smasherman]

Perhaps one could participate in a variety of activities part-time.

 

[cronxeh]

Patty I guess it takes special people with a unique mindset and vision to make a utopian society

 

[Smurf]

Other = Software programming

Always needed

 

[Smurf]

Perhaps one could participate in a variety of activities part-time.

Entirely possible.

 

[Smurf]

For the record I put down everything except "Elder Care", for various reasons.

 

[Pengwuino]

Patty's understanding of anarcho-socialist thought it rough at best. Most would suggest that any need for which there is a demand in the community could and probably will be met.

I want a ferrari.

Thought not.

Thats what I don't like about communist fanatics and their crap about "Oh everyone will get to do what they want and its all for the community" (haha yah, this is an off-topic rant). Well dream on. No one wants to be a garbage man, no one wants to work the sewers, etc etc etc. Plus some people are just not good at certain things. If some dense housewife wants to be a astronomer, well too damn bad because you're too stupid and you can do better as a cook.

 

[Burnsys]

Other: Software programing also.

It used to happen to me, when i didn't had a job, and i didn't do anything you feel the needs to do something, Paid or not, i think it's somenthing natural in humans, the need to do work...

 

[cronxeh]

For the record I put down everything except "Elder Care", for various reasons.

I'd do that. Unless they are ridiculously offensive, then I'd put them on Prozac

I actually think there should be aerial spraying of Prozac on daily basis in this country.. but what do I know

 

[Pengwuino]

Entirely possible.

Not for a decent society. Society only runs well because people who are good and experienced at something stay at it and only at it.

 

[Smasherman]

Ideally "Elder Care" would be an integral part of daily life instead of streamlined.

 

[Smasherman]

Not for a decent society. Society only runs well because people who are good and experienced at something stay at it and only at it.

Would you truly wish to devote your entire life to only one type of job? That sounds rather repetitive to me.

 

[Smurf]

I want a ferrari.
Thought not.

Do you have one now?

The problem with criticizing anarcho-socialist theories by saying they can't easily get certain products is that most individuals usually can't get them under this economy either.

I don't see why you can't have one. Depending on the system it'd be entirely likely you could get one just as easily.

 

[Pengwuino]

Would you truly wish to devote your entire life to only one type of job? That sounds rather repetitive to me.

Of course not but how effective would you be if you're juggling 3 different types of jobs? What kinda cook do you think you'd have if on monday he cooks, tuesday he programs software, and wednesday he builds houses?

 

[wasteofo2]

I would play music for free.

And I'd be more than glad to receive health-care for free.

 

[Pengwuino]

Do you have one now?
The problem with criticizing anarcho-socialist theories by saying they can't easily get certain products is that most individuals usually can't get them under this economy either.

Well for one, what kinda society would you be having if you took the actual manhours out of hte system to build luxury cars for every citizen that wanted one? You're trying to compare systems when the original selling point is that by itself, its a great system.

 

[Smurf]

Of course not but how effective would you be if you're juggling 3 different types of jobs? What kinda cook do you think you'd have if on monday he cooks, tuesday he programs software, and wednesday he builds houses?

A cook that also built your house and programmed your OS?

You don't need a lifetime of dedication to learn to cook food pengwuino.

 

[cronxeh]

Would you truly wish to devote your entire life to only one type of job? That sounds rather repetitive to me.

I think I got it! No way man

I think the best plan would be:

Mandatory FREE education until 21, including bachelors level degree. After that you have a set of options in blocks of 6 months of each! So you get to experience different jobs your whole life, and a total security!

Another option is to continue specializing and getting Masters or PHD - and then you'd have more advanced options like teaching and research and further specialization that you can choose yourself! Its like choosing an outline for your life that you can edit later depending on the most needed positions which would be presented to you as your part of your options list

Oh and I think we should limit our population growth! No more than 2 kids per family!

Call this a fascist state but it will work wonders I think

 

[Pengwuino]

A cook that also built your house and programmed your OS?

See how rediculous it would be. You can't do 3 jobs and be any good at any of them.

 

[Smurf]

Well for one, what kinda society would you be having if you took the actual manhours out of hte system to build luxury cars for every citizen that wanted one? You're trying to compare systems when the original selling point is that by itself, its a great system.

Who says we'd build a ferari for every dink that wants one?

 

[Smurf]

See how rediculous it would be. You can't do 3 jobs and be any good at any of them.

Nevermind pengwuino... go back to humping rocks.

 

[Smasherman]

One could cook in the morning and program during the day. One could undertake a building project for however long needed, doing less cooking and programming as a result. Though perhaps a little less efficient, people could conceivably be happier with a variety of tasks to occupy them. Happier people tend to be more efficient, possibly offsetting the decrease in efficiency from not streamlining.

 

[Pengwuino]

One could cook in the morning and program during the day. One could undertake a building project for however long needed, doing less cooking and programming as a result. Though perhaps a little less efficient, people could conceivably be happier with a variety of tasks to occupy them. Happier people tend to be more efficient, possibly offsetting the decrease in efficiency from not streamlining.

Holy hell are you serious. People's happiness would be horribly offset by the inefficiencies that would grow out of the fact that people barely do anything for any amount of time.

 

[Pengwuino]

Who says we'd build a ferari for every dink that wants one?

Well its what the community wants...

See, its bull.

I can't believe people think like you.

I Am God.

 

[Smurf]

I Am God.

Pfft. i easily have more worshippers than you.

 

[Smasherman]

Perhaps it would be best to perform an experiment involving one group of people who do one job over and over again and another group of people that diversify their jobs.

Colleges look for students who do non-academic things, correct? Why is this? Is it because diverse individuals are more productive?

 

[cronxeh]

Perhaps it would be best to perform an experiment involving one group of people who do one job over and over again and another group of people that diversify their jobs.

Colleges look for students who do non-academic things, correct? Why is this? Is it because diverse individuals are more productive?

Nah because its a source of cheap labor

 

[Moonbear]

Did you have to lump education and child care together? I love teaching, but hate babysitting. No way in heck I'd offer to take care of anyone's kids but my own. I've always said that if I didn't have to work to earn a living, I'd teach.

I don't see anything else on that list that I'd do for free. I got the education I got so I would earn enough to NOT have to do those to earn a living.

 

[pattylou]

I wouldn't of, except I ran out of options.

Cooking isn't even on the list. So child care and education got lumped, probably because my kids are smallish and the two are still basically the same chore.

(well, that, and my college age students are really in need of a grounding from time to time. )

 

[pattylou]

Patty's understanding of anarcho-socialist thought it rough at best.

Hey now. While I'm not even sure that you've used proper English, I am pretty sure that I've just been insulted.

I told you (or someone else) that I am not a communist. So I may not appreciate the nuances of anarcho-socialism.

But! The main beef I have with the converation in PWA is the idea that "people won't work if they don't have to..." The fact that no one out of 12 respondents *here* has chosen "none," is strong evidence that I was right - people work at things they enjoy for the common good, out of basic human drives of decency etc.

Even if half of the population wanted to be lazy (or, alternatively, all the population half the time) it seems that society should still function well enough.

 

[Smurf]

I am pretty sure that I've just been insulted.

Of course not. My insults are far more creative than that. That was me excusing you from your position as thread monitor. It's a hijacking without actually changing the subject. Quite clever, really.

 

[pattylou]

Well, alright then. As long as we have that cleared up.

Smurf is terribly clever, and Patty has not been insulted. I'm good with that.

 

[pattylou]

Hmm... living in a world with only basic needs? BORING.

The idea is that if there is something you enjoy doing, you might do it - and thereby relieve your boredom.

 

[Smurf]

Smurf is terribly clever, and Patty has not been insulted.

got that right.