Y-component of the force vector in turning flight

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the y-component of the force vector during turning flight, specifically why this component is equal to the weight force. Participants explore concepts related to equilibrium, lift forces, and the pilot's control over these forces in the context of flight mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the y-component of the force during turning flight equals the weight force, indicating a lack of understanding.
  • Another participant asserts that if vertical forces are not equal and opposite, the plane would either gain or lose altitude, suggesting a relationship between these forces and flight stability.
  • It is noted that the pilot can control the force of lift, but the model does not inherently determine that the lift force equals the weight force.
  • A participant introduces the concept of vertical equilibrium, stating that if the plane's height is constant, it is in vertical equilibrium.
  • Discussion includes the idea that the required lift force during a turn exceeds that required for level flight, and adjustments to the angle of attack and throttle are necessary for maintaining altitude and airspeed.
  • There is a mention of the pilot's training regarding throttle and stick control, emphasizing that the diagram provided does not fully explain how to achieve equilibrium in different aircraft.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the relationship between lift and weight forces, with some agreeing on the concept of equilibrium while others highlight the complexities involved in maintaining flight stability. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the mechanics of turning flight.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference aerodynamic principles and the need for adjustments in flight control, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific definitions and assumptions about flight dynamics. The complexities of different aircraft and pilot techniques are acknowledged but not fully explored.

Xorda
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Hello,

I have a question:
Why is the y-component of the force at turning flight equal to the weight force?

Kurvenflug.png

Here, Fs is equal to Fg. But why?

I tried to explain it myself but I didn't get it
 
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What happens to a body if there is a net force acting on it?
 
It will accelerate
 
Right. So what would happen to the plane if those vertical forces weren't equal and opposite?

Does the pilot have any means to control ##F_s##?
 
There would be a loss of altitude if Fs is lower than Fg and if Fs is greater than Fg the plane would gain height. I think I got it now XD
 
If the pilot controls the plane so that it is flying in a horizontal plane, it has to be.
 
Xorda said:
There would be a loss of altitude if Fs is lower than Fg and if Fs is greater than Fg the plane would gain height. I think I got it now XD
Right.

There's nothing in the model you've given that will let you determine that ##F_s=F_g##. We just note that the pilot can choose to do that, and we assert that she's doing it in order to have the plane conveniently flying level for this example.
 
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Thanks for help :D
 
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The term 'equilibrium seems not to have been used here, yet. If the plane's height is constant then it's in vertical equilibrium. @Xorda I think you were looking for an aerodynamic answer rather than a straight Mechanics approach.
 
  • #10
sophiecentaur said:
The term 'equilibrium seems not to have been used here, yet. If the plane's height is constant then it's in vertical equilibrium. @Xorda I think you were looking for an aerodynamic answer rather than a straight Mechanics approach.
In which case, an answer would be that the magnitude of the required lift force ##F_a## during the turn exceeds the lift force ##F_s## which would be required for ordinary level flight.

In order to increase the lift force one can increase the angle of attack. But to maintain airspeed one will then need to throttle up. Otherwise, increased induced drag and parasitic drag will both reduce airspeed.

I am not a pilot, but my understanding is that one is trained to (counter-intuitively) use the throttle to control altitude and the stick to control air speed.
 
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  • #11
jbriggs444 said:
I am not a pilot, but my understanding is that one is trained to (counter-intuitively) use the throttle to control altitude and the stick to control air speed.
The diagram in the OP assumes that the pilot has done the right thing with the throttle. It doesn't tell the pilot what to do to achieve equilibrium because all planes are different. It's only a small part of the description of the whole situation.
 

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