YOU: Fix the US Energy Crisis

[CharlesP]

The drawback to this is the fact that, because masonry is generally cooler than the hot outside air (in summer); when this outside air comes in contact, it tends to dump a lot of its absorbed moisture onto the colder masonry walls. As result, basements are often wet and moldy, especially in the more humid areas.

I have observed this phenomenon for two years in my new house and it is strange here. In summer moisture is absorbed by the cinder block basement walls. I suspect it goes into the pores so that the basement is not quite as damp as expected. In the fall as the outside cools the water comes out and lands on the windows, lots of it. Then as the basement cools the vapor pressure drops and the windows are dry again.
It is important to have air conditioning or dehumidifier in the basement during some very damp summers.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In the news...

...Shortly after the completion of the Nagano plant, Pacific Biodiesel began to attack an even larger problem for the Landfill – grease trap waste. With the addition of a custom designed grease trap oil processor, PacBio was then able to supply its own boiler fuel, again while diverting 140 tons of grease trap oil from the Landfill each month. This biofuel product is available for considerably less than petroleum diesel fuel. [continued]

http://www.biodiesel.com/aboutPacBio.htm

Willie Nelson: On the Road Again with Biodiesel

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/gen/20040629_Willie_Nelson.pdf

 

[ohwilleke]

The average American male makes 2.5 million year-2000 dollars in his lifetime and wastes much of that on luxuries such as cars that can go three times the maximum speed limit, low-brow entertainment, jewelry, dysfunctional clothing, mountains of poisonous "food", glorified 18th-century "health care", preventable "accidents", low-brow weddings, divorces from spouses that simple psychological tests would have told them they should not have married, low-brow funerals, etc. On a $2.5 million lifetime income, I think a person can cut back on a few of those things and afford to build a $500,000 high-security home.

So we're going to eliminate fast cars, entertainment involving depictions of car chases, bling, pretty stuff, junk food, health care, weddings, divorces, funerals, and accidents. And, while we're at it, we are going to join a monestary and swear oaths of chastity and obediance, so we can spend all day praying that we going get sick or hurt or die or fall in love or fall out of love or have any emotions that involve the limbic system.

 

[1123581321]

while hydrogen is cool, i like this:
Develop nuclear fusion to the point where it is safe and efficent.
Then, develop new battery technology that can recharge quickly and store lots of power.
With nuclear fusion, power everything. No dangerous by-products like smog or radioactive crap.
Then put these batteries in cars and other vehicles and use them to power them. your fueling station will have a plug .
What do you think, it seems logical, dosn't it. THere is probably some problems somewhere, but those can be fixed.

Just an idea that would probably never happen

Fibonacci

 

[brewnog]

while hydrogen is cool, i like this:
Develop nuclear fusion to the point where it is safe and efficent.
Then, develop new battery technology that can recharge quickly and store lots of power.
With nuclear fusion, power everything. No dangerous by-products like smog or radioactive crap.
Then put these batteries in cars and other vehicles and use them to power them. your fueling station will have a plug .
What do you think, it seems logical, dosn't it. THere is probably some problems somewhere, but those can be fixed.

Just an idea that would probably never happen

Fibonacci

Read the whole thread...

 

[Robust]

Cellulosic oil technology, developed in the UK, but stifled by the Crown\, is our best resource. Next best is "Turkey" fuel, recently developed in US looks to be 2nd best. Things are looking up on the energy front!

 

[Cliff_J]

Cellulosic oil technology, developed in the UK, but stifled by the Crown, is our best resource. Next best is "Turkey" fuel, recently developed in US looks to be 2nd best. Things are looking up on the energy front!

The ethanol is a small step but not really a solution. And by the Turkey fuel I assume you mean the TDP (thermo depolyermization) where different organic wastes can be converted to oil like products. Again, nice step to reduce oil needs but not a full-blown energy solution and not much help on the pollution front.

The electrical system is the big problem and here in the US its mostly coal with some natural gas so the pollution is huge as well. In addition the infrastrucure is old and costly updates have been postponed to the point of massive costs (postponing them even more) so its a very complicated problem.

After reading up on the issues the strongest canidate is nuclear power. IMO the nuclear proponents need an intelligent PR person who can frankly address the needs of the industrialized nations. One who can address the concerns and admit the over-stated promises of the past and fears about the future. A person who can communicate the problems and overall long-term risks and benefits. Until then, we're clawing at incremental improvements.

 

[ohwilleke]

I disagree that the electrical system is the big problem. The electrical system is an opportunity to use cleaner fuels, but, unlike the transportation system, isn't facing any impending fuel shortage and has a host of technical fixes from wind to nuclear available.

In contrast, the continued viability of the transportation system, which overwhelmingly relies upon oil derivatives, is acute. One economic indicator, the price of a barrel of oil (at $58 last time I checked), which has a clear long term trend towards going up, has the potential to paralyze our modern economies everywhere, and particularly in the United States which has chosen not to tax gas nearly as much as its competitors in Europe and Japan (where taxes roughly double the cost of gasoline compared to the United States), and thus is much reliant upon cheap gas than its competitors.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

in the news:

After a year-long delay, Honda and a partner have announced they will sell a $2,000 home fueling station for natural gas cars starting in the spring of 2005. Initial sales, estimated at 500 a year, will be limited to California, but Honda could then expand to other states such as New York, where natural gas cars are used in the state fleet.

...The biggest obstacle to broader acceptance of natural gas vehicles is the limited availability of refueling stations," American Honda Vice President Tom Elliott, said in a statement. [continued]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5960905

 

[owl3951]

Here's a start, at least. I am thinking the small town of Chico, CA, where I live, could become energy-independent with this tree, while also reclaiming vast areas of hard pan which surround the town.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/foolfaerie420/46528.html#cutid1

In the past year, info on the Internet about the Karanji has doubled, leading me to believe there is already a growing interest. Of course, when I say doubled, you must understand there was not much to begin with.

 

[Azael]

This is a project by statkraft in norway to extract power when freshwater mixes with saltwater.

I read a little about it in a swedish science magasine but I have troubble finding more info on this technology. Does anyone here know anything about it and how big can it become? Obviously there is no shortage of either salt nor freshwater in most parts of the world so if its a efficient energy producer it could very well compete.

Saline power plant trials
In collaboration with SINTEF, NTNU and the Research Council of Norway, Statkraft has just opened the world’s first laboratory dedicated to research on saline power generation.

In Sunndalsfjorden fresh water from the Aura Power Station runs into the fjord. The source of energy is actually the meeting of fresh and salt water.

The technology is based on osmosis, one of the basic principles of physics. All energy levels tend to equilibrate. This means that fresh water has a natural tendency to dilute seawater. We can extract useful energy from the mixing of fresh water and seawater, if they were previously separated by a semi-permeable membrane.

When the fresh water diffuses through the membrane it creates a pressure differential that can be used to drive a turbine. SINTEF is working on the development of this membrane.

Scroll down to middle of page
http://www.ntnu.no/gemini/2003-06e/4-7.htm#19

 

[Azael]

I did not realize how old this thread was before making my post. So I apologise if I should not have brought it back to life.

 

[willib]

i read the article , but can not figure how they are going to get power from osmosis..
below , this was also on the same page

Problematic aurora borealis
The aurora borealis is a beautiful natural phenomenon, but it can also cause real problems for military high frequency (HF) communication systems in northern Norway. The aurora causes distortions in the ionosphere some 300 km up, where radio waves are reflected back to the ground. These disruptions may interfere with the reception of pictures, text, and sound.

anyone see anything wrong with the statements above..??
for one thing the aurora is an effect of solar wind interacting with the magnetic poles of the planet , its not the cause of anything..

 

[Bystander]

One approach is to "dam" a fjord or estuary with an osmotic membrane set at the base of the dam. Fresh water passes through the membrane, dropping the fresh water level by whatever distance is desired for conventional hydroelectric power generation methods. Problems to be solved are: 1) membrane strength to withstand couple hundred kPa to MPa pressure differences between the two sides of the "dam;" 2) membrane permeability to pass sufficient amounts of fresh water to make such a project practical; 3) mixing the diluted seawater on the seaward side of the membrane to maintain enough osmotic gradient to maintain flow; 4) filtration ahead of the membrane to reduce fouling; 5) determining bypass flow rates to rinse crud the filtration system passes from the upstream side of the membrane.

If it ain't obvious, the trick being accomplished with the membrane is to add 10s to 100s of meters of fall to the stream, river, whatever at its outlet to be used for h-elec power generation.

 

[Mike Nagle]

Dose anyone know what the max output of a large hydro generator at full capacity

 

[russ_watters]

Dose anyone know what the max output of a large hydro generator at full capacity

There is no theoretical limit, but the largest in existence is the Three Gorges Dam at 18,000 megawatts, 18 times a typical nuclear reactor.

 

[sngtdt]

Great discussion. I did not read all the posts, but my comments would be: source of hydrogen must be considered. I've heard that most hydrogen comes from natural gas and we're back to fossil fuels again. I think ethanol has great potential if a feedstock like switchgrass can be utilized. Even with corn, this country has a huge agricultural capacity, if it can be grown with less environmental impact. The only thing I don't like about nuclear is the long term waste storage problem. The waste from the nuclear plants that are online now is not stored properly and that waste can remain hazardous for thousands of years. The best treatment I have heard of for the waste is glassification. I don't know the details of the process, but somehow the waste is converted into a glass that cannot leak out of containers.

 

[Mike Nagle]

There is no theoretical limit, but the largest in existence is the Three Gorges Dam at 18,000 megawatts, 18 times a typical nuclear reactor.

Thanks for the info. When I've done some math I'll post more.

 

[2stroketech]

Trash

This is the plan that I have been playing with for years. It is an all incompasing plan that fixes many problems all at once.

Trash is basically an under tapped resource. My plan would exploit it to it's fullest.

#1 (a) set up electrical genereation plants in every major metropolitin area that can support a trash burning plant. (b) Set up regional plants that can not support one on their own. (c) Smaller plants can be set up by smaller communities as well.

#2 (a) RECYCLE evry thing that is recyclable. This is almost everything. 7% of all trash is metal is is a very valubale commodity at this time. (b) there are small companies all over the US that are building small scale plants to turn plastic waste into recovered crude oil. Recycle plastic waste for this purpose. (c) The waste that is left over would be burned for electricity. (d) all recyclables would be sold at market value.

#3 (a) The work force would be made up of those that are less fortunate or the poor if you want to be realistic. (b)The jobs would be 1.25 times the minimum wage in your area. (c)The jobs would be to pull anything recyclable off the conveyor and sort it out. (d) other jobs would be child care persons, caffeteria workers, grounds keepers, janitors, and so on. After 4 hrs. of work you are entitled to a meal in the caffeteria. (e) Child care is provided on site for those that need it. (f) A medical clinic will be on site for those that work at least 15hrs. per week or for those in an emergency. (g) GED and community college clases would also be available to those completing a minimum of 32 hrs. per week. (h) This would effectively replace welfare.

#4 (a) This system could be used by anyone that needs assistance or just to make a few extra $. (b) Minimum work day would be 2 hrs. at a time. (c) Assisted people could taylor there work schedules to their needs. (d) State and federal offices could be located in the same plant for the ease of people working. (e) Using mass transit system to get there, would give you a .25 per hour bonus becasue of the savings it gives on the roads.

#5 (a) Empowerment classed could be taught, such as money management, parenting classes, drug and alcohol classes.

This will provide work fare instead of well fare. This will provide those that have a hard time finding jobs a place to work. This will recycle much of our trash that is wasted in landfills every year. This will allow people access to medical care. This will pull the main polutants (plastics and rubbers) out of the trash that is burnt making it a cleaner burn opperation. This will allow the reduction in land fills, the creation of power and the empowerment of those at the bottom to better them selves with a almost self sufficient system that eases the burdan on the tax payer. Even if this only supplimented the social system is would still do nothing but benifit overall.

I propose that tax breaks be given to companies that set these up or even use the government to set these up. I know the whole system seems a little Orwellian, but it is a system that would give people a choice about their situation and put the responsibility squarely on their own sholders while reducing polution, creating energy and creating a whole new class of productive citizens in our society who will now have the oppertunity to move up easier.

 

[jaap de vries]

I Have a simple thing we can do. Raise fuel Tax by 50 cents a gallon and use that solely for research and development of alternative energy sources. This way the biggest polluters become the biggest contributors for the solution.

 

[Mike Nagle]

Trash

This is the plan that I have been playing with for years. It is an all incompasing plan that fixes many problems all at once.

I like the way you think. I have a similar plan, but it works with the transportation problem

 

[rocky14159]

Whatever happens, I hope we come up with a better alternative fuel than ethanol, it has a lot of refining going into it, and costs a lot, and all cars with it have to have rubber fuel lines in it, which will use petroleum, which, last time i checked, help the environment very much

 

[Cocacolacan]

Although no one will like this idea as everyone loves a good steak, but get rid of the cattle industry. Insects, although a large annoyance, are extremely easy to culture (leave some sugar out in the summer), they reproduce like nobody's business, and they are inexpensive (compared to cattle). They don't need the vast open fields to run free and consume the grass. The land could be converted to corn or soy fields, and the U.S. could reduce world hunger.

@Rocky, rubber is inevitable in cars.

And there is an infinitely better solution than Ethanol, check out Algaculture on Wikipedia.

 

[nuby]

How about hydrogen from water? What are the efficiency problems with getting hydrogen / oxygen gas from water verse hydrogen from natural gas?

 

[Cocacolacan]

The problem with getting hydrogen from water is that the energy required to separate the two would be the same (assuming 100% efficiency) as the energy released when they are joined. It doesn't create energy, it allows for storage of it, which is what a fuel cell does, but when you are putting more energy into something than you are getting out at a later time, the benefits aren't all that great.

 

[nuby]

The problem with getting hydrogen from water is that the energy required to separate the two would be the same (assuming 100% efficiency) as the energy released when they are joined. It doesn't create energy, it allows for storage of it, which is what a fuel cell does, but when you are putting more energy into something than you are getting out at a later time, the benefits aren't all that great.

I understand that. I guess I should have asked what the net energy gain is by using natural gas for a hydrogen source vs. water?

 

[nuby]

While searching around the web for electrolysis efficiency, I came across this link:[crackpot link deleted]

Some of this seems somewhat crack-potish. But if it was practical wouldn't it be a great source of energy? This technology claims to use a 'resonant' affect to break water into hydrogen and oxygen more efficiently than standard electrolysis. Is something like this possible?

 

[russ_watters]

While searching around the web for electrolysis efficiency, I came across this link:[crackpot link deleted]

Some of this seems somewhat crack-potish. But if it was practical wouldn't it be a great source of energy? This technology claims to use a 'resonant' affect to break water into hydrogen and oxygen more efficiently than standard electrolysis. Is something like this possible?

Your instinct was correct: the claim is a direct violation of conservation of energy and is just crackpottery. No, it isn't possible.

 

[toots]

Well, nuclear is limited due to the limited uranium available. I believe we have 50-75 years at current rate. Coal and natural gas supplies are finite.

I propose more hydroelectric. More tidal electric. Wind electric and solar electric are good supplementals. And lastly, algae oil.

At some point, super insulated homes and buildings are going to come into play.

Whatever we do, it's going to be costly.

 

[nuby]

If someone found out how to harness, vacuum energy, zero point energy, or a simpler type of nuclear energy. Would this be a viable solution to our energy problems? Or could it be too dangerous for the public to have access to?