Zettili QM Problem on Trace of an Operator

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the trace of an operator represented as |\psi><\chi| from Zettili's Quantum Mechanics textbook. The kets |\psi> and |\chi> are described as linear combinations of orthonormal basis kets, but their specific forms are not central to the question at hand.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the validity of using the property Tr(AB) = Tr(BA) for a single operator, questioning whether this applies when transitioning from a ket-bra to a bra-ket representation. Some participants express confusion over treating the trace of a scalar as equivalent to the trace of an operator.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the arguments presented regarding the trace operation. Some participants have offered clarifications on the misuse of trace properties, while others have shared their own calculations that align with the textbook's answer, indicating a mix of interpretations and approaches without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original problem may not provide sufficient clarity on whether certain quantities should be treated as scalars or operators, leading to confusion in applying trace properties correctly.

guitarphysics
Messages
241
Reaction score
7

Homework Statement


In Zettili's QM textbook, we are asked to find the trace of an operator |\psi&gt;&lt;\chi|. Where the kets |\psi&gt; and |\chi&gt; are equal to some (irrelevant, for the purposes of this question) linear combinations of two orthonormal basis kets.

Homework Equations


Tr(\hat{A}\hat{B})=Tr(\hat{B}\hat{A})

The Attempt at a Solution


The solution is given in the textbook. Zettili says the following:

Since Tr(\hat{A}\hat{B})=Tr(\hat{B}\hat{A}), we know that Tr(|\psi&gt;&lt;\chi|)=Tr(&lt;\chi|\psi&gt;).

From then on calculating the trace is no problem.

My question is if this is a valid argument. It seems to me that the equation Zettili is starting from talks about the trace of two operators not caring about the order the operators are multiplied in. However, the trace we want to find in this problem is the trace of a single operator, namely |\psi&gt;&lt;\chi|. The reversal of the product from ket-bra to bra-ket doesn't seem to be the same concept as changing the order of multiplication of two operators. Can anybody help me out here?

(If anyone's curious, this is Problem 2.1 c on page 133-134 of the second edition of Quantum Mechanics: Concepts and Applications.)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Simply speaking
$$ trace(\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) = \langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle = \sum_n \langle \Psi | n\rangle \langle n | \Phi \rangle = trace(|\Psi\rangle\langle\Phi|)$$
 
gre_abandon said:
Simply speaking
$$ trace(\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) = \langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle = \sum_n \langle \Psi | n\rangle \langle n | \Phi \rangle = trace(|\Psi\rangle\langle\Phi|)$$
No, this is not correct
\mbox{Tr}(\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) = (\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) \ \mbox{Tr} ( \mbox{identity} ) \neq \langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle
 
guitarphysics said:
Since Tr(\hat{A}\hat{B})=Tr(\hat{B}\hat{A}), we know that Tr(|\psi&gt;&lt;\chi|)=Tr(&lt;\chi|\psi&gt;).
This is very, very wrong:
1) You only have one operator. So, you can not use the identity \mbox{Tr}(AB) = \mbox{Tr}(BA).
2) \mbox{Tr}( | \Psi \rangle \langle \Phi | ) \neq \mbox{Tr}(\langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle ). Because \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle is a number, you can pull it out of the trace operation, and in n-dimension you get
\mbox{Tr}\left( \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle \right) = \mbox{Tr}\left( \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle \ I \right) = \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle \mbox{Tr}( I ) = n \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle
More similar mistakes some students make are the following
\mbox{Tr} \left( | \psi \rangle \langle \phi | \right) = \mbox{Tr} \left( ( | \psi \rangle I ) \langle \phi | \right) = \mbox{Tr} \left( \langle \phi | \psi \rangle \ I \right) ,
\mbox{Tr} \left( | \psi \rangle \langle \phi | \ I \right) = \mbox{Tr} ( \langle \phi | I | \psi \rangle ) = \mbox{Tr} ( \langle \phi | \psi \rangle )
These are wrong because the objects ( |\psi \rangle I ), ( \langle \phi | I ), ( |\psi \rangle ) or ( \langle \phi | ) are not operators. Therefore one can not apply the identity \mbox{Tr}(AB) = \mbox{Tr}(BA).
Now, to solve your problem, you only need to apply the definition of the trace
\mbox{Tr}(A) = \sum_{n} A_{nn} = \sum_{n} \langle n | A | n \rangle ,
where \{ |n\rangle \} are complete orthonormal states, i.e., they satisfy
\langle m | n \rangle = \delta_{mn} and \sum | n \rangle \langle n | = I.
In your case
\mbox{Tr}( | \Psi \rangle \langle \Phi | ) = \sum_{n} \langle n | \Psi \rangle \langle \Phi | n \rangle .
Since \langle n | \Psi \rangle and \langle \Phi | n \rangle are numbers, you can write the above as
<br /> \begin{align*}<br /> \mbox{Tr}( | \Psi \rangle \langle \Phi | ) &amp;= \sum_{n} \langle \Phi | n \rangle \langle n | \Psi \rangle \\<br /> &amp;= \langle \Phi | \left( \sum_{n} | n \rangle \langle n | \right) | \Psi \rangle \\<br /> &amp;= \langle \Phi | I | \Psi \rangle \\<br /> &amp;= \langle \Phi | \Psi \rangle ,<br /> \end{align*}<br />
where the completeness relation \sum |n \rangle \langle n | = I has been used.
 
samalkhaiat said:
No, this is not correct
\mbox{Tr}(\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) = (\langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle) \ \mbox{Tr} ( \mbox{identity} ) \neq \langle \Psi | \Phi \rangle
I see your point. I treated the number as a one-by-one matrix because I am not sure whether it is really a scalar times a identity matrix (not clear from the statement of the problem). Except this point, everything is fine.
 
Thanks so much for your reply! I originally just calculated it directly when presented with the problem (i.e. I worked straight from the definition of trace) and got the same answer as the author (and afterwards also applied a similar procedure to yours to arrive at the more general expression), but I just didn't understand how Zettili had done it his way. Glad to know it was incorrect, although it confirms my growing suspicion while reading this book that Shankar's text is far superior and more reliable (with so few frickin problems though!).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K