High-heeled shoes and evolution theory.


by 2112rush2112
Tags: evolution, highheeled, shoes, theory
Jimmy Snyder
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#37
Feb14-13, 02:52 PM
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I should point out that since I retired, I don't wear neckties as often as I used to. After I gave them all to charity, the local bums look much better and have better luck with the females than ever before. I still haven't reached the point where I'm ready to burn my underwear yet, but my wife says that if I don't change them more often, she's going to do it for me.
BobG
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Feb14-13, 02:56 PM
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Quote Quote by Jimmy Snyder View Post
The necktie has been a central battleground of sexual politics ever since the emergence of the men's liberation movement of the 1970s BC. Many second-wave masculinists rejected what they regarded as constricting standards of male beauty, created for the subordination and objectifying of men and self-perpetuated by reproductive competition and men's own aesthetics. Some masculinists argue that the neckties were designed to make men helpless and vulnerable, perpetuating the gender role of females as liberators of the slowly suffocating men. Neckties have also been blamed for reducing the men to a sex object by sacrificing practical comfort in favor of an alleged increase in sex appeal.
(bolding mine)

I think it's worse than that.

Neckties were invented by women that hated men enough to take pleasure in seeing them strangled and mutilated by the office paper shredder.

Tie clips, on the other hand, were invented by women that felt some sense of protection over the menfolk in her life.

Especially really cool tie clips like these:
BobG
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Feb14-13, 03:04 PM
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Quote Quote by Ryan_m_b View Post
Rule 1 of applying the theory of evolution to cultural practices: be extremely careful and hesitant when applying the theory of evolution to cultural practices because 99.99% of the time your ad hoc rationalisation will not only be wrong, it will completely miss the point.

This is especially true when you are trying to discuss items of fashion that are transient and culture specific.
So you're claiming that multiple body piercings serve no evolutionary purpose? Surely it at least protects them from increased exposure to cosmic rays since they can never get past the metal detectors in order to board a plane.
I like Serena
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Feb14-13, 03:24 PM
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Quote Quote by BobG View Post
Especially really cool tie clips like these:
Those look like tie clips invented by masculinists.
Astronuc
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#41
Feb14-13, 07:09 PM
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Speaking of high-heeled -

zoobyshoe
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#42
Feb14-13, 09:00 PM
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Quote Quote by I like Serena View Post
I believe more in zooby's view: they want to look pretty, they want to be appreciated... for the power it brings them.
That's not exactly what I was trying to say (although the average Dominitrix costume does seem to include spiked high heels). I was trying to say that the desire to dress up and be attractive is, itself, attractive, even if the woman is not so skilled in operating her high heels. Some women do seem awkward in them, but it's the thought that counts.
InvalidID
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#43
Feb14-13, 09:51 PM
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Quote Quote by FlexGunship View Post
My personal opinion regarding a girl wearing high heels is about the same as a man who wears expensive but tasteful clothing. It's nothing to do with the specifics of the clothing and way more about the fact that this is what our current culture deems as "put together." It's a social differentiator; its ends are its own means; it's a confidence booster in its own right.
I agree. If you want to appear put together, you have to wear what society decides how put together people should look like. It's a universal language that the majority of people (society) understand.
HeLiXe
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Feb15-13, 12:33 AM
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Quote Quote by zoobyshoe View Post
That's not exactly what I was trying to say (although the average Dominitrix costume does seem to include spiked high heels).
Evo
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#45
Feb15-13, 01:12 AM
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As the feminist movement gained momentum, however, stilettos went out of favor with the cry: “Liberate the captive foot of womanhood!” For many feminists, high heels indicated subservience and sexual stereotyping by men. High heels were titillating “man-made” objects, literally involved in crippling women, or at least slowing them down when the need to run away from male violence and oppressors arose. Heels were seen as a comparable successor to foot binding and the tight-laced corset as perverse regulatory objects for molding the feminine. Consequently, heels dropped and thickened, and soon low-heeled shoes with square toes replaced the stiletto (Gamman 1993).

Perhaps influenced in part by successful TV and film hits as Sex in the City and The Devil Wears Prada, some women are even going under the knife to shorten their toes or inject padding into the balls of their feet to allow their feet to fit more comfortably into a pair of stilettos
Sick. I worked with a woman that broke her foot trying to wear ridiculous high heels. It's not possibe to squeeze your toes into that tiny space at such a severe angle. She was very skinny too, so it wasn't her weight.

http://www.randomhistory.com/1-50/036heels.html
NemoReally
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#46
Feb15-13, 01:43 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Sick. I worked with a woman that broke her foot trying to wear ridiculous high heels. It's not possibe to squeeze your toes into that tiny space at such a severe angle. She was very skinny too, so it wasn't her weight.

http://www.randomhistory.com/1-50/036heels.html
Let's try a different, perhaps less selective, quote from that peer-reviewed article ...

Formal Invention of High Heels as Fashion

The formal invention of high heels as fashion is typically attributed to the rather short-statured Catherine de Medici (1519-1589). At the age of 14, Catherine de Medici was engaged to the powerful Duke of Orleans, later the King of France. She was small (not quite five feet) relative to the Duke and hardly considered a beauty. She felt insecure in the arranged marriage knowing she would be the Queen of the French Court and in competition with the Duke’s favorite (and significantly taller) mistress, Diane de Poitiers. Looking for a way to dazzle the French nation and compensate for her perceived lack of aesthetic appeal, she donned heels two inches high that gave her a more towering physique and an alluring sway when she walked. Her heels were a wild success and soon high heels were associated with privilege. Mary Tudor, or “Bloody Mary,” another monarch seeking to appear larger than life, wore heels as high possible (McDowell 1989). By 1580, fashionable heels were popular for both sexes, and a person who had authority or wealth was often referred to as “well-heeled.”

King Louis XIV
In the early 1700s, France's King Louis XIV decreed that only nobility could wear heels that were colored red and that no one's heels could be higher than his own

In the early 1700s, France's King Louis XIV (The Sun King) would often wear intricate heels decorated with miniature battle scenes. Called “Louis heels,” they were often as tall as five inches. The king decreed that only nobility could wear heels that were colored red (les talons rogue) and that no one's heels could be higher than his own..
Subservient, my foot!
Evo
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#47
Feb15-13, 02:04 AM
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I was hoping to keep this in our lifetime so it mattered (as in relevant) to us. High heeled shoes don't go back very far in history.
NemoReally
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#48
Feb15-13, 02:42 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
I was hoping to keep this in our lifetime so it mattered (as in relevant) to us. High heeled shoes don't go back very far in history.
Pushing on in years, I may be, but Catherine de Medici was not one of my contemporaries. At least, I don't think she was ...

It is possible to interpret the feminist movement "subservience" model of high heels as just a post-facto reaction against the prevailing standards. The same article that you quoted makes statements that are not consistent with your hypothesis. Please provide me with a reference to a peer-reviewed psychological study, in an accepted journal, that validates the hypothesis that wearing high heels makes women feel subservient.
Evo
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Feb15-13, 03:05 AM
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Quote Quote by NemoReally View Post
Pushing on in years, I may be, but Catherine de Medici was not one of my contemporaries. At least, I don't think she was ...

It is possible to interpret the feminist movement "subservience" model of high heels as just a post-facto reaction against the prevailing standards. The same article that you quoted makes statements that are not consistent with your hypothesis. Please provide me with a reference to a peer-reviewed psychological study, in an accepted journal, that validates the hypothesis that wearing high heels makes women feel subservient.
LOL, you expect a peer reviewed scientific journal to have research on high heels?

Scientists don't do research on fashion, AFAIK. Peer reviewed sicentific journals are needed if you are referring to a scientific study, or something that should be.

I didn't state a hypothesis, I mentioned reading a fashion article, but I posted an article that backed up what I said I had read.
Zarqon
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#50
Feb15-13, 03:39 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
LOL, you expect a peer reviewed scientific journal to have research on high heels?

Scientists don't do research on fashion, AFAIK.
Well, if you look at the PRL webpage you'll find that they've been proudly announcing their paper about the physics of Ponytails that won the IG nobel award, so you never know...

Also, on topic, something I haven't seen mentioned yet, is that high heels does change the proportions of their legs with respect to the rest of the body, and long legs is another thing that I guess is generally considered attractive.
Jimmy Snyder
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#51
Feb15-13, 04:44 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Scientists don't do research on fashion, AFAIK.

A Stress Analysis of a Strapless Evening Gown.
Andre
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#52
Feb15-13, 05:02 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
LOL, you expect a peer reviewed scientific journal to have research on high heels?
Morris, P.H, J. White, E. R. Morrison, K. Fisher, 2013; High heels as supernormal stimuli: How wearing high heels affects judgements of female attractiveness, Evolution & Human Behavior, PII: S1090-5138(12)00122-5 doi:10.1016/j.evolhumbehav.2012.11.006
BobG
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Feb15-13, 05:45 AM
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What we need is a peer reviewed article comparing the length of the 2nd finger to the 4th finger for high heel wearers to high heel non-wearers. That should provide some insight into the motivation to wear high heels.

While we have peer reviewed articles for high heels and peer reviewed articles for what the 2D/4D ratio means, no one has addressed how 2D/4D ratio affects the tendency to wear high heels.
D H
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#54
Feb15-13, 06:54 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
LOL, you expect a peer reviewed scientific journal to have research on high heels?
Social scientists study all kinds of weird stuff. High heels? Open toed shoes? Falsies? They're all fair game in the weird world of the social sciences.


High heels aid in attracting a good mate.
E.O. Smith (1999). High Heels and evolution: natural selection, sexual selection, and high heels. Psychology, Evolution, and Gender, 1 (3), 245-277.
While it is unlikely that there is a gene for wearing high heels, the tendency to wear high heels under certain social conditions may be a manifestation of a larger pattern of behavior associated with mate attraction.

High heels help women get help from men.
M.B.Harris and G.Bails (1973). Altruism and sex roles. Psychological Reports, 32, 1002.
It appears that the likelihood of an altruistic response is indeed affected by sex-role stereotypes. Women wearing feminine attire [ruffled blouse, high heels, and curly hair] are more likely to be helped, particularly if they make a feminine request for help ["My shopping cart is stuck. Can you help me?"]

Related: Falsies also help women get help from men.
N.Guéguen (2007). Bust size and hitchhiking: a field study. Perceptual and Motor Skills, 105 (3), 1294-1298.
To test the effect of a woman's bust size on the rate of help offered, 1200 male and female French motorists were tested in a hitchhiking situation. A 20-yr.-old female confederate wore a bra which permitted variation in the size of cup to vary her breast size. She stood by the side of a road frequented by hitchhikers and held out her thumb to catch a ride. Increasing the bra-size of the female-hitchhiker was significantly associated with an increase in number of male drivers, but not female drivers, who stopped to offer a ride.

Or maybe women wear high heels because foot fetishes are safe sex?
A.J.Giannini et al. (1998). Sexualization of the female foot as a response to sexually transmitted epidemics: a preliminary study. Psychological Reports, 83 (2), 491-498.
The authors reviewed historical literature and hypothesized a relationship between epidemics of sexually transmitted diseases and foot fetishism. They tested this hypothesis by quantifying foot-fetish depictions in the mass-circulation pornographic literature during a 30-yr. interval. An exponential increase was noted during the period of the current AIDS epidemic. The authors offer reasons for this possible relationship.


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