A Giant Hole in space Well, I'll be a

[rhody]

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2010/07/vast-dark-hole-in-space-what-is-it.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyGalaxyNewsFromPlanetEarthBeyond+%28The+Daily+Galaxy%3A+News+from+Planet+Earth+%26+Beyond%29"

ESA’s Herschel infrared space telescope has made an unexpected discovery: a dark hole in space. The hole has provided astronomers with a surprising glimpse into the end of the star-forming process. A cloud of bright reflective gas known to astronomers as NGC 1999 sits next to a black patch of sky. For most of the 20th century, such black patches have been known to be dense clouds of dust and gas that block light from passing through.

When Herschel looked in its direction to study nearby young stars, the cloud continued to look black, which should not be the case. Herschel’s infrared eyes are designed to see into such clouds. Either the cloud was immensely dense or something was very unusual.

Investigating further using ground-based telescopes to confirm the discovery, astronomers found the same phenomena: this patch looks black not because it is a dense pocket of gas but because it is truly empty. Something has blown a hole right through the cloud. “No-one has ever seen a hole like this,” says Tom Megeath, of the University of Toledo, USA. “It’s as surprising as knowing you have worms tunnelling under your lawn, but finding one morning that they have created a huge, yawning pit.”

Stars are born in dense clouds of dust and gas that can now be studied in unprecedented detail with Herschel. Although jets and winds of gas have been seen coming from young stars in the past, it has always been a mystery exactly how a star uses these to blow away its surroundings and emerge from its birth cloud. Now, for the first time, Herschel may be seeing an unexpected step in this process.

The astronomers think that the hole must have been opened when the narrow jets of gas from some of the young stars in the region punctured the sheet of dust and gas that forms NGC 1999. The powerful radiation from a nearby mature star may also have helped to clear the hole. Whatever the precise chain of events, it could be an important glimpse into the way newborn stars disperse their birth clouds.

Casey Kazan via ESA

Rhody...

P.S. Is there really enough energy in the jets and nearby radiation to have this effect ? A one time weird coincidence of events ?

 

[rhody]

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=390234"

Hmm, remember this post awhile ago ? Galaxies moving away at at bout 1/10 th the speed of light, and now this, any correlations (however unrelated) to be drawn here ?

Marcus, any thoughts ?

Maybe that's where all that missing matter in the current story ended up, lol.

 

[nismaratwork]

From what I understand, this could be exactly what has been theorized; the result of the birth of a hypergiant star. The star itself could have rapidly spent its nuclear fuel... but then where is the remnant? If this is polar, where is the other pole? I find this very interesting and unexpected, but dark matter? Hm, if it were there should be lensing around the edges of hole. This is very odd.

 

[rhody]

From what I understand, this could be exactly what has been theorized; the result of the birth of a hypergiant star. The star itself could have rapidly spent its nuclear fuel... but then where is the remnant? If this is polar, where is the other pole? I find this very interesting and unexpected, but dark matter? Hm, if it were there should be lensing around the edges of hole. This is very odd.

nismaratwork,

Yeah, just like the other story with about 4% of the universe moving away from us at 1/10th the speed of light, both stories beg for better explanations. I am sure Marcus will get back to us after the holidays.

Rhody...

P.S. Had a chance to do give more thought to the post: Why is Asperger's considered a form of autism? https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2782345&postcount=87", and your post #88 ? Any followup ?

 

[my_wan]

I'm curious, but I seen nothing in that article to give any sense of scale. That could range anything from a yawn to a jaw dropper. The photo looks a bit strange, but perceptions from the photo are not very useful. The discussion of possible effects of jets of gas makes the scale issue even more curious.

Any source with better numbers?

The variation in the sharpness of the edges also looks curious. The left side, with the complex corner, have sharper delineations that the right and top. Almost like it was a chain of events, rather than a localized effect from a given location. Yet this is pure speculation, lacking even a basic knowledge of scale here.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm curious, but I seen nothing in that article to give any sense of scale. That could range anything from a yawn to a jaw dropper. The photo looks a bit strange, but perceptions from the photo are not very useful. The discussion of possible effects of jets of gas makes the scale issue even more curious.

Any source with better numbers?

The variation in the sharpness of the edges also looks curious. The left side, with the complex corner, have sharper delineations that the right and top. Almost like it was a chain of events, rather than a localized effect from a given location. Yet this is pure speculation, lacking even a basic knowledge of scale here.

If you consider the birth of a hypergiant star, it could very well disrupt formation around it, and "blow" the remains clear. Given time, you would have radiation, and little else. Perhaps there is a black hole in the center of that... hole... but it is not surrounded by anything, and therefore is not detectable. As large as that region is, maybe there is no lensing that can be detected. This is also pure speculation, but... how many things could cause that, aside from a random "hole".

Maybe it's a polar jet oriented at an angle, with the star that caused it originally obscured by dust. The opposite hole might also be obscured if the angle is correct. I wish I could draw worth a damn, but I think you get the idea. Still, without scale that could be a preposterous posit on my part.

 

[jimgraber]

my wan,
Here is the real professional article:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1005/1005.2202v1.pdf
It is very small and very nearby by astronomical standards,
about one sixteenth of a light year across and about five hundred light years away,
if my quick rough calculations are correct.
Just a small hole in a dust cloud.
Also, they say it should only last a few ten thousands of years unless there is a wind or jet that keeps cleaning it out.

Jim Graber

 

[nismaratwork]

The presence of a well delineated cavity of the size of
10,000AU deserves some attention. With the typical turbulent
velocities on the order of a few km/s in clouds, such a cavity
should be filled on timescales of at most a few 10,000 yrs
and quickly disappear. The PANIC H2 narrow band data (Fig. 4)
deliver important hints about the possible origin and peculiar
shape of the cavity. They reveal a previously unknown,
faint H2 bow shock enveloping the SMZ 60/HH148 compact
knots (Stanke et al. 2002; Corcoran & Ray 1995), constituting
the clearest evidence so far for a collimated flow running northeast
to southwest through the cavity. This flow, which likely originates
in the V380Ori multiple system, could possibly excavate
the southern part of the cavity. SMZ 6-8 in the southeastern corner
of the PANIC image resembles a small bow shock in a flow
coming from the northwest; together with HH35, located northwest
of V380Ori (Fig. 1), it indicates a second, northwest to
southeast oriented flow, which could be responsible for digging
the northwestern lobe of the cavity.

That was a good read, but it still sounds as though time and observation are needed to make more than a highly educated guess.

 

[my_wan]

my wan,
Here is the real professional article:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1005/1005.2202v1.pdf
It is very small and very nearby by astronomical standards,
about one sixteenth of a light year across and about five hundred light years away,
if my quick rough calculations are correct.
Just a small hole in a dust cloud.
Also, they say it should only last a few ten thousands of years unless there is a wind or jet that keeps cleaning it out.

Jim Graber

Thanks, much better.