Deceptively Difficult Physics Integration Problem (Restorative Forces)?

In summary, the conversation is about a physics integration problem involving a particle of mass m released from rest a distance b from a fixed origin of force that attracts the particle according to the inverse square law. The goal is to show that the time required for the particle to reach the origin is π(mb3/8k)1/2. The conversation includes hints and explanations for solving the problem, including integration from time=0 to time=t and using substitutions. The final result is shown to be π(mb3/8k)F(x) = -kx^{-2}, and the conversation ends with the resolution of a question about the integration interval.
  • #1
cj
85
0
The following seemed simple enough to me . . . I'm somewhat sure about the requisite physics, but shakey on the integrals:

A particle of mass m is released from rest a distance b from a fixed origin of force that attracts a particle according to the inverse square law:

F(x) = -kx-2

Show that the time required for the particle to reach the origin is:

π(mb3/8k)1/2


And then I reviewed the hints provided by the author -- the very first of which completely stumped me. My rusty calc skills not withstanding, how is the following hint true:

Show that dx/dt = -(2k/m)1/2 · (1/x - 1/b)1/2
the negative sign results from the physical situation


the subsequent hint is also a mystery to me:

Show that t = sqrt(mb3/2k) · ∫sqrt[y/(1-y)]dy
where y = x/b (evaluated from 1 to 0)


the 3rd hint is likewise elusive to me:

Show that setting y=sin2θ results in t = sqrt(mb3/2k) · ∫2sin2θdθ (evaluated from π/2 to 0)

let alone the final result of π(mb3/8k)
 
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  • #2
[tex]F(x) = -kx^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]ma = -kx^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]dv/dt = -(k/m)x^{-2}[/tex]

[tex](dv/dx)(dx/dt) = -(k/m)x^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]vdv = -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = \frac{k}{m} \left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

I believe you can figure out the first hint from here. Note that the integration was done from time=0 to time=t. Given what you have, see if you can work with it to get the second hint.
 
  • #3
Actually, it's quite simple:

[tex]dx/dt = -(2k/m)^{1/2}(1/x - 1/b)^{1/2}[/tex]

[tex](1/x - 1/b)^{-1/2}dx = -(2k/m)^{1/2}dt[/tex]

[tex]\left ( \frac{bx}{b-x} \right ) ^{1/2}dx = -(2k/m)^{1/2}dt[/tex]

[tex]\sqrt {\frac{y}{1-y}}dy = -(2k/mb^3)^{1/2}dt[/tex]

Now, integrate from [itex]t=0[/itex] to [itex]t=t_f[/itex]. You know that [itex]y(t_f) = x(t_f)/b = 0/b = 0[/itex] and [itex]y(0) = x(0)/b = b/b = 1[/itex]. So, you'll have:

[tex]\int _1 ^0 \sqrt{\frac{y}{1-y}}dy = -\sqrt{(2k/mb^3)}t_f[/tex]

The rest should be pretty simple, unless you're just rusty on the calculus. They're suggesting a substitution: y = sin²[itex]\theta[/itex].

[tex]\int _1 ^0 \sqrt{\frac{y}{1-y}}dy[/tex]

[tex]= \int _{\pi /2} ^0 \sqrt{\frac{\sin ^2 \theta}{1 - \sin ^2 \theta}}(2\sin \theta \cos \theta d\theta )[/tex]

[tex]= 2\int _{\pi /2} ^0 \sqrt{\frac{\sin ^2 \theta}{\cos ^2 \theta}} \sin \theta \cos \theta d\theta[/tex]

[tex]= 2\int _{\pi /2} ^0 \frac{\sin \theta}{\cos \theta} \sin \theta \cos \theta d\theta[/tex]

[tex]= 2\int _{\pi /2} ^0 \sin ^2 \theta d\theta[/tex]

[tex]= \int _{\pi /2} ^0 1 - \cos (2\theta ) d\theta[/tex]

[tex]= \theta - \frac{1}{2}\sin (2\theta )[/tex]

[tex]= (-\pi /2)[/tex]

EDIT: no, this looks fine. This is the integral on the left side. Now isolate [itex]t_f[/itex] and you're done.
 
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  • #4
Deceptively Difficult Physics Integration Problem (Restorative Forces)? Reply to T

Thanks very much -- this is quite helpful.

However (with regard to the last line in your
post below), if you integrate from t = 0 to t = t
is the order not (1/b - 1/x) as opposed to (1x - 1/b)??

Thanks!


AKG said:
[tex]F(x) = -kx^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]ma = -kx^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]dv/dt = -(k/m)x^{-2}[/tex]

[tex](dv/dx)(dx/dt) = -(k/m)x^{-2}[/tex]

[tex]vdv = -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = \frac{k}{m} \left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

I believe you can figure out the first hint from here. Note that the integration was done from time=0 to time=t. Given what you have, see if you can work with it to get the second hint.
 
  • #5
cj

The second last line of what you quoted was:

[tex]vdv = -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

Now, showing all my steps:

[tex]\int _{v(0)} ^{v(t)} vdv = \int _{x(0)} ^{x(t)} -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\int _0 ^{v(t)} vdv = (k/m) \int _b ^{x(t)} -x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{0}^{v(t)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{b} ^{x(t)}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = (k/m)\left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

And the last line was:

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = \frac{k}{m} \left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

There's no difference between the last two lines here, just changed a [itex](k/m)[/itex] to a [itex]\frac{k}{m}[/itex].
 
  • #6
I certainly understand your reasoning -- thanks again.

What is still perplexing me is that, since the initial conditions have the
object located at x=b, shouldn't -- technically -- the interval be taken as:

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{v(t)}^{(0)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{x(t)} ^{(b)}[/tex]

rather than:

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{0}^{v(t)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{b} ^{x(t)}[/tex]


??

AKG said:
cj

The second last line of what you quoted was:

[tex]vdv = -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

Now, showing all my steps:

[tex]\int _{v(0)} ^{v(t)} vdv = \int _{x(0)} ^{x(t)} -(k/m)x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\int _0 ^{v(t)} vdv = (k/m) \int _b ^{x(t)} -x^{-2}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{0}^{v(t)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{b} ^{x(t)}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = (k/m)\left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

And the last line was:

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = \frac{k}{m} \left (\frac{1}{x(t)} - \frac{1}{b} \right )[/tex]

There's no difference between the last two lines here, just changed a [itex](k/m)[/itex] to a [itex]\frac{k}{m}[/itex].
 
  • #7
There's no difference:

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{v(t)}^{(0)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{x(t)} ^{(b)}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{0^2}{2} - \frac{v(t)^2}{2} = (k/m)[1/b - 1/x(t)][/tex]

[tex]-\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = (k/m)[1/b - 1/x(t)][/tex]

[tex]\frac{v(t)^2}{2} = (k/m)[1/x(t) - 1/b][/tex]

Work out this one, and you'll see it's the same:

[tex]\frac{v^2}{2}|_{0}^{v(t)} = (k/m)(1/x)|_{b} ^{x(t)}[/tex]
 
  • #8
Got it -- thanks for answering this, as well as all my
other questions.

I was thinking there was a convention that said
something like the integration interval should
be taken as from the final or "end" state to the
initial state.

Again, thanks for all your answers!
 

1. What is a "Deceptively Difficult Physics Integration Problem"?

A "Deceptively Difficult Physics Integration Problem" refers to a problem that appears simple on the surface, but requires complex integration techniques to solve. These problems often involve multiple forces acting on an object, making it challenging to determine the resulting motion or equilibrium.

2. What are restorative forces in physics?

Restorative forces are types of forces that act to restore an object to its original position or state. These forces can be categorized as either elastic or non-elastic. Elastic restorative forces, such as Hooke's Law for springs, act to return an object to its original shape or length. Non-elastic restorative forces, such as friction or air resistance, act to bring an object back to its original position or state by dissipating energy.

3. How do you approach solving a deceptively difficult physics integration problem?

Solving a deceptively difficult physics integration problem requires a systematic approach. First, identify all the forces acting on the object and their directions. Then, use Newton's Second Law to determine the net force on the object. Next, use integration techniques, such as the area under a curve or the fundamental theorem of calculus, to solve for the displacement or velocity of the object. Finally, check your answer for reasonableness and accuracy.

4. Can you provide an example of a deceptively difficult physics integration problem involving restorative forces?

Sure, an example of a deceptively difficult physics integration problem involving restorative forces is a block sliding down a frictionless ramp and colliding with a spring at the bottom. The problem may appear simple at first, but it requires the use of integration techniques to determine the displacement of the block as it compresses the spring and comes to a stop.

5. What are some tips for successfully solving deceptively difficult physics integration problems?

One tip for solving deceptively difficult physics integration problems is to break the problem down into smaller, more manageable parts. This can help you identify and isolate the forces at play and make the integration process easier. Another tip is to practice and familiarize yourself with different integration techniques, such as using trigonometric or inverse trigonometric functions. Finally, always double-check your work and use units to ensure your final answer is reasonable and accurate.

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