Estimating Photon # in 2 Frames: Lorentz Transformation

In summary, the conversation discusses the transformation of frequency and field strength of an EM wave in a vacuum for observers in different frames of reference. The photon number is not a Lorentz scalar or function, but observers in inertial motion always agree on it. However, the field strength does not transform in the way initially stated and the assumption of fixed volume for energy calculations is incorrect due to length contraction. The correct field transformation is derived and discussed.
  • #1
mathfeel
181
1
Suppose there is some EM wave in the vacuum with frequency and field strength [tex]\omega,E[/tex]

In the frame of someone moving along with the light, the frequency and field become:
[tex]\omega^{\prime} = \alpha \omega\,, E^{\prime} = \alpha E\,,
\alpha = \sqrt{\frac{1-\beta}{1+\beta}}[/tex]

Suppose both observers want to estimate the photon number. They do:
[tex]n \propto E^2/\hbar \omega[/tex]
in their respective frame and will come up with a number that differ by a factor [tex]\alpha[/tex]

So photon number is not a Lorentz scalar or function of one? That's not a big deal. But usually there'd be other related quantity (like time and space is related) that is transforms with n. What it is?
 
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  • #2
I believe that observers in inertial motion relative to one another always agree on the number of quanta. To get a disagreement, you have to have an acceleration, which leads to the Unruh effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_effect ), and the accelerations involved are so large that there has never been any way to experimentally confirm it. So if you're convincing yourself that different inertial observers in flat space disagree on n, then I think you've made a mistake in your calculation.

I don't think the field strength transforms the way you're saying. It transforms like three of the components of the electromagnetic field strength tensor.

Also, when you take the energy to be proportional to field strength squared, you're implicitly assuming that the volume over which you're integrating is fixed. It's not, because of length contraction.
 
  • #3
bcrowell said:
I believe that observers in inertial motion relative to one another always agree on the number of quanta. To get a disagreement, you have to have an acceleration, which leads to the Unruh effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_effect ), and the accelerations involved are so large that there has never been any way to experimentally confirm it. So if you're convincing yourself that different inertial observers in flat space disagree on n, then I think you've made a mistake in your calculation.

I don't think the field strength transforms the way you're saying. It transforms like three of the components of the electromagnetic field strength tensor.

Also, when you take the energy to be proportional to field strength squared, you're implicitly assuming that the volume over which you're integrating is fixed. It's not, because of length contraction.
You are right. I forgot about volume. It's actually more interesting now because over a volume, I have to think about simultaneity.

This field transformation is correct. I first derived it using four-potential, but I just checked that it agrees with Griffiths:
[tex]E^{\prime}_x = \gamma (E_x - \beta B_{y}) = \gamma (1-\beta) E_x = \sqrt{\frac{1-\beta}{1+\beta}} E_x[/tex]

since E_x = B_y (in Gaussian unit) for wave in vacuum (traveling in the z direction, linearly polarized in the x direction).
 
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1. How does the Lorentz Transformation relate to estimating photon numbers in 2 frames?

The Lorentz Transformation is a mathematical equation used to describe the relationship between space and time in different frames of reference. In the context of estimating photon numbers, it helps to account for the differences in measurements of photons in two different frames of reference, such as when measuring the speed of light in a moving object.

2. Can the Lorentz Transformation accurately estimate photon numbers in all scenarios?

While the Lorentz Transformation is a well-established mathematical model, it is not a perfect solution and may not accurately estimate photon numbers in certain scenarios. For example, it does not account for quantum effects or the behavior of photons in extreme conditions.

3. How is the Lorentz Transformation used in experiments to estimate photon numbers?

In experiments, the Lorentz Transformation is used to calculate the effects of time dilation and length contraction, which affect the measurement of photon numbers in different frames of reference. It is also used in the analysis of data to account for these effects and accurately estimate photon numbers.

4. Are there any limitations to using the Lorentz Transformation in estimating photon numbers?

The Lorentz Transformation is based on the assumption of a constant speed of light in a vacuum, which may not always hold true in real-world scenarios. Additionally, it does not take into account the effects of gravity, which can also impact the measurement of photon numbers.

5. How important is the Lorentz Transformation in modern physics and scientific research?

The Lorentz Transformation is a fundamental concept in modern physics and is used extensively in various fields of research, including quantum mechanics, astrophysics, and particle physics. It is crucial for accurately describing the behavior of particles, including photons, in different frames of reference and has been essential in advancing our understanding of the universe.

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