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Can women really get men to do anything they want?

by Nucleonics
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Nucleonics
#1
Feb1-06, 11:40 AM
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Being a male, I've heard women frequently tell me that they can make men do anything they so desired (within reason, I'd assume). The sheer lack of humility of such a statement makes me think it's just something women say because they heard other women say it also. But I was wondering what the experience of the women in this forum really was. Can you ladies really get anything you request from a guy (within reason)?
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Moonbear
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Feb1-06, 11:49 AM
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The quick answer...NO.

The longer answer...there are manipulative women, just as there are manipulative men, and yes, they will try to get anything they want from other people (not just men). Of course, what they aren't telling you is the price they're willing to pay to get it, such as giving up their dignity. They also don't go after just any guy either, they look for easy prey. I'd say that there are quite a few men on this board that would see right through their act and give them the bum's rush out the door when they tried it.
CosminaPrisma
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Feb1-06, 11:56 AM
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Manipulative people suck.

fasterthanjoao
#4
Feb1-06, 11:57 AM
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Can women really get men to do anything they want?

agreed. women, hopefully not causing too much offence, are manipulative and moany. If anythings to be learned it's that complaining and emotional blackmail get you anything you want.

Math Is Hard
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Feb1-06, 12:05 PM
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Quote Quote by fasterthanjoao
agreed. women, hopefully not causing too much offence, are manipulative and moany. If anythings to be learned it's that complaining and emotional blackmail get you anything you want.

That is offensive. And it's an unfair generalization.
Nucleonics
#6
Feb1-06, 12:17 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonbear
there are manipulative women, just as there are manipulative men, and yes, they will try to get anything they want from other people (not just men). Of course, what they aren't telling you is the price they're willing to pay to get it, such as giving up their dignity. They also don't go after just any guy either, they look for easy prey.
Thanks for the insightful explanation. However, now I'm even more curoius. Do women typically expect a guy to honor a request even when something is not being offered in return? For example, I've noticed that men will often times pull over if a woman is having car problems, or is short a few bucks for lunch, etc, while it is much harder for another male to expect the same generousity.
Moonbear
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Feb1-06, 01:14 PM
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Quote Quote by Nucleonics
Thanks for the insightful explanation. However, now I'm even more curoius. Do women typically expect a guy to honor a request even when something is not being offered in return? For example, I've noticed that men will often times pull over if a woman is having car problems, or is short a few bucks for lunch, etc, while it is much harder for another male to expect the same generousity.
No. Actually, in this day and age, I'd get really nervous if a guy pulled over to help me while I had car trouble...I know there are plenty of nice people with mechanical knowledge who would stop to offer help, but there are also plenty of sickos who would like to take advantage of a woman stranded on an isolated road.

Men just offer women a few bucks if they're short the cash for lunch? I've never heard anything like that one. Unless you're talking about friends, in which case I would hope it would work both ways (and never expected, just something friends would do anyway). Then again, with friends, it all evens out over time anyway. If someone gives me a few bucks when I'm short for lunch, and won't accept repayment, then next time we go get something else, I'll pick up the tab for them (half the trouble are the men who have been brought up to believe they always have to pay for a woman and never the other way around, so you have to trick them by waiting until they take a trip to the restroom to pay the bill so it's too late for them to do anything about it by the time they return ).

And, if you lived in the world of Miss Manners, when it was always "proper" for the man to pay the check on dates, then women still were supposed to return in-kind by inviting him for a home-cooked meal. It was still sort of a meal for a meal, just in the one case, the man paid the bill at a restaurant (because of course in that day and age, men weren't expected to know what the knobs on a stove did let alone actually prepare a whole meal), and the women bought all the ingredients to cook the meal themselves.
BobG
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Feb1-06, 03:01 PM
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Quote Quote by Nucleonics
Thanks for the insightful explanation. However, now I'm even more curoius. Do women typically expect a guy to honor a request even when something is not being offered in return? For example, I've noticed that men will often times pull over if a woman is having car problems, or is short a few bucks for lunch, etc, while it is much harder for another male to expect the same generousity.
Nonsense. If the male is well dressed, well groomed and obviously belongs in the high class restaraunt he's trolling, he can easily panhandle a 100 dollars or so in the men's restroom in less than 15 minutes. Who hasn't been so stressed at hosting an important business meeting that they forgot their wallet?

Not personal experience. I watched "Omar the Baker" on Tom Snyder's "Tomorrow" show. Omar was a professional panhandler who made about $75,000 a year (in 1970's dollars). Today, I think you'd have to have a cell phone and lap top in addition to being well groomed. Men may be more generous to women overall if it makes them feel like a knight in shining armor, but they're equally generous to anyone that "belongs to the same club".
honestrosewater
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Feb1-06, 04:02 PM
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Quote Quote by Math Is Hard
That is offensive. And it's an unfair generalization.
I don't know if either of you were joking, but if you were both serious, I'll second MIH. Those kinds of obviously false generalizations seem much more prevalent in discussions where men are talking women or vice versa. I even catch myself doing it sometimes -- and it's something I'm very aware of and try to avoid. Anywho, I know some women, and they aren't all identical. I know some men, and they aren't all identical. I have yet to meet anyone who knows all women or all men. Is there even any correlation at all between biological sex and character traits or personal tastes anyway? Is there any reason to think there would be? Bleh. Sorry, I guess this has been getting on my nerves lately.
Quote Quote by Nucleonics
Do women typically expect a guy to honor a request even when something is not being offered in return?
Excepting medical treatment and situations where my anatomy or physiology is relevant, I don't want to be treated differently because I'm a woman. I go out of my way -- sometimes leaving myself feeling like a total b**ch -- to avoid being treated differently because I'm a woman, which, by the way, sucks, especially when the people doing it had good intentions. But I know some women who do want to be treated differently because they're a woman. So maybe you just have to ask each person or take your chances with generalizations.
Gale
#10
Feb1-06, 04:28 PM
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i have a lot to say on the subject, seeing as i'm that "type" of girl i guess. I'm manipulative, i know it, its just my nature, and if you saw my early posts on pf, you'd have an idea of how i used to be. as i've gotten older, my character hasn't changed, but i've better realized the moral limits and all that. Like moonbear said, its not gener specific in any way. its just loads easier to manipulate a guy, but by no means is it limited that way. And also, like she said, there's definetly a price. even if you don't have to do anything extreme or humiliating or otherwise disagreeable, you always know that you just manipulated someone, and its really hard to have a high self esteem when most of your interactions are 'conquests.' and its hard to trust yourself, because when its your nature to manipulate truths and situations and people, you're never quite sure where the truth is any more.

Only thing moonbear said that i slightly disagree with is the part about "easy prey." it really depends on the manipulator. for me, it was rarely about actually getting things, its more about power. i'd rarely even aim for material stuff, and when i would, it was just like, "hell, i wonder if he'll buy me.." its more about knowing you could get something if you wanted it. And so, you get progressively harder targets. like, i'd guess there are more easy targets than the hard ones, but you never remember the easy ones. Its the difficult one's that you remember, its them that you actually aim for.


but anyway, i tend to do a lot of charity for anyone. i don't really have money to pick up the tab if a guy's short on change, but around my home town, i pick up hitch hikers, (teenage one's i recognize from school or where ever,) and i'm the first to hold open a door if a guy's hands are full. And in my dorm, anyone of any sex knows they can come by for math help. In general, i like to help people, and even if i'm manipulative, i really try to not hurt anyone. "do unto others as you'd have others do unto you." i live by that. not everyone does, manipulative or otherwise.
TheStatutoryApe
#11
Feb1-06, 05:23 PM
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I'd have to say that from what I have seen women are usually treated better and trusted more (in general situations) than men by both men and women.
I've seen and known women that have been stranded on the side of the road and always had someone stop to help them out where as men rarely get help. The only exception I have seen is when a man sees another man pushing his vehicle and they stop to help push.
I've seen women walking along the side of the road and almost invariably have someone stop to offer them a ride. Of the several times I have been walking along side the road I've only ever been offered a ride twice. Once when I was with a woman and once when some very desperate guy tried to proposition me.
Just about any woman can walk into a bar and expect to have someone offer to buy them a drink. Most guys can expect that a woman will try to get them to buy her a drink rather than buy one for them. It does happen though, I've actually had a lady buy me a drink once. Once I actually had some random woman walk up to me and "Your hot!" then proceed to hit on me profusely even though I was trying to get away from her. Ultimately she said "Hey weren't you going to buy me a drink?" and I replied "Well I'm shooting pool at the moment but let me think about it while I finish my game." at which point I think she got the hint and she stopped talking to me.

I don't think that the majority of women manipulate men on a regular basis. The ones that take advantage of men to get what they want are few and (at least somewhat) far between. I think that most women are more than capable of it though and I think that most women will use their "feminine wiles" to get something at some point even if it's just a free drink or some help moving heavy boxs or what not.

*note to the PF ladies: I did say most, not all.
zoobyshoe
#12
Feb1-06, 06:14 PM
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There are lots of girls who discover in their teens that by charm and sexual allure alone they can get a great deal of attention and be favored in many situations where they probably don't otherwise merit it. Some of them go on a power trip with this, and that sounds like what the girl quoted in the OP is high on.

It's not like there aren't the equivalent guys. A guy with this kind of charm is much less likely to attribute it to being male, however, and wouldn't say "Guys can get women to do anything they want." He'd limit the characterization to himself.
Pengwuino
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Feb1-06, 06:44 PM
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Women never get me to do anything. This one girl came up to me one day and asked where the nearest office depot was. I then punched 4 of her teeth out.
Moonbear
#14
Feb1-06, 06:52 PM
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Quote Quote by TheStatutoryApe
I'd have to say that from what I have seen women are usually treated better and trusted more (in general situations) than men by both men and women.
I don't know about the trust part (not disagreeing, just don't know), but you're right that in general, women do get more offers of help. I wasn't trying to deny that. The original question was about whether we expect it or think we can get anything we want from a man, and that's what I was denying. It is unfair (and sometimes even annoying to someone like me). Annoying in the context of things like offers for rides. A few times I've dropped my car off for work, and when I lived close to a repair shop, would walk home and back again when the car was ready (it was about a 20 min walk...something I didn't mind at all considering I could easily go for an hour walk just for exercise, so certainly didn't mind the walk for a purpose). Not only did I get offers of rides from the mechanics, which I appreciated, though politely declined (I don't know if they offered everyone rides or not...I just gave them benefit of the doubt and assumed they probably do if they know someone doesn't have a ride, sometimes that's just a courtesy service garages provide), but I also got offers from complete strangers passing me on the road (a short part of the walk was along a busy, main road before I got to the residential streets). That was the annoying part...can't someone just want to walk? Besides, why would I want to take a ride with someone who is a complete stranger and then direct them to where I live?

As for helping stranded motorists, I would if I thought I could be of some help, but usually, I'm not...it's not like I carry around a toolbox in my car or anything. That's what I find funny about when guys stop to help...I mean, when I was a kid and teenager, both my dad and stepdad knew how to fix a car and always had tools with them (my stepdad was a mechanic, so he definitely knew what he was doing), so if they saw someone stranded, they really could help and did offer...but some guys stop even though they can be of no help whatsoever - they have no tools or mechanical knowledge. I have stopped to help someone push a car when they didn't have enough people already to do it, and stopped once when I saw a car pulled on the side of the road next to the deer they just hit...it was a couple, and the poor guy seemed to already have his hands full with his girlfriend who was sobbing hysterically over the deer (okay, I actually stopped because as I was approaching from behind, I couldn't tell that it was a deer, just saw something still moving on the ground and this woman standing there looking hysterical, so I thought they hit a person, but I probably would have stopped anyway since I had my cellphone in case they needed to call for help...usually when I see someone broken down on the side of the road, I try to see if they are holding a phone already, and if I can't tell or don't see one, I'll call and report it just in case, even if I don't stop). Before the days of cell phones, when I'd travel the NJ Turnpike a lot, often the quickest way to get someone help was to report it at the next toll booth, so there have been several times I've reported accidents when it wasn't safe for me to stop to help at the scene, so sometimes the men just don't know that women have sent help their way.

Guys buying drinks in bars only seems to work when you're still in your 20s. I never really knew how to respond to that either. It seems unfair to just let some guy I don't know buy me drinks, but if he was cute and I wanted to get to know him better, saying no was interpreted that I wasn't interested in him, not that I wasn't interested in mooching off him. Is there a polite way to turn down the drink without turning down the guy? Honestly, I don't mind if a guy just sits down next to me and starts chatting without offering to buy me a drink.

*note to the PF ladies: I did say most, not all.
Yes, duly noted.
Moonbear
#15
Feb1-06, 06:55 PM
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Quote Quote by zoobyshoe
There are lots of girls who discover in their teens that by charm and sexual allure alone they can get a great deal of attention and be favored in many situations where they probably don't otherwise merit it. Some of them go on a power trip with this, and that sounds like what the girl quoted in the OP is high on.

It's not like there aren't the equivalent guys. A guy with this kind of charm is much less likely to attribute it to being male, however, and wouldn't say "Guys can get women to do anything they want." He'd limit the characterization to himself.
I think you're right, and that's interesting by itself, isn't it? Yes, the manipulative women do seem to assume their behavior and charm generalizes to all women, but the manipulative men just think they're special, not that it would generalize to all men.
TheStatutoryApe
#16
Feb1-06, 08:06 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonie
I don't know about the trust part (not disagreeing, just don't know), but you're right that in general, women do get more offers of help. I wasn't trying to deny that. The original question was about whether we expect it or think we can get anything we want from a man, and that's what I was denying.
I was just building up. Illustrating that the oportunity to take advatage of men naturally exists because men tend to treat women differently to begin with. So to say that a woman can get what ever she wants from men may be an exageration but isn't completely off base, in my opinion.

Quote Quote by Moonie
Is there a polite way to turn down the drink without turning down the guy? Honestly, I don't mind if a guy just sits down next to me and starts chatting without offering to buy me a drink.
Why turn it down unless you aren't interested?
While it's become more commonly done, and associated with, picking up on someone at a bar it's really quite common to buy someone you just met at a bar a drink(male or female). I've had people offer me drinks just because they thought I shot pool well. It's just sort of a customary offer and in the dating scene it's generally a bad sign if you refuse. You could easily accept and then explain to the guy as you talk that you generally don't accept drinks and offer to buy the next round. That way at least he'll hopefully understand if you refuse a second drink and you haven't put him off by refusing him in the first place.
I'm sure that if he did something more original than offer to buy you a drink though you would probably accept it more readily.
Moonbear
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Feb1-06, 08:52 PM
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Quote Quote by TheStatutoryApe
Why turn it down unless you aren't interested?
Well, that's the thing, I don't know if I'm interested until I've talked with him a bit. And if he's already bought me a drink, then I feel like I owe him something in return, and if I decide after a few minutes of talking that I'm not interested, then it feels like I'm just using the guy if I don't stick around to buy the next round, but if he's completely boring, I really don't want to spend that long talking to him. I mean, if I had been talking with the guy for a half hour and was interested enough to consider exchanging numbers and going on an actual date, then I wouldn't worry so much, because I'd know I would have another chance to return the favor, but it just feels all wrong for it to be only a one-way thing. And, really, what if I don't even want a drink? You wouldn't believe the odd look I got the one time I said all I really wanted was a glass of ice water (I was at a club, dancing, and was just really hot and really did want ice water, not alcohol). Why can't they just come over and talk for a while and if we hit it off, we can take turns buying drinks if we're going to stay longer?
TheStatutoryApe
#18
Feb1-06, 09:23 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonie
Why can't they just come over and talk for a while and if we hit it off, we can take turns buying drinks if we're going to stay longer?
Perhaps too many guys rely on it as an ice breaker. Personally I wouldn't buy a drink for a woman unless I had already been talking to her for a bit. Maybe when a guy uses it as an ice breaker it's a bad sign anyway?


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