Australia predicts China passes US by 2015

[Skyhunter]

Just like christianity was the majorly accepted religon of the US before it was attacked by the liberals and the bible/ten commandments were/are a guide for legeslation.
You represent the party that says it accepts everyone, the party that defends the koran because of the rights of Americans who practice Islam, and attacks the bible because you say it offends Muslims, so what is wrong with Islam being the religion of state in Iraq? For the most part, the Koran provides a good moral guideline for Muslims, it is extremests who mis-interpret it and kill.

Edit: is it because you say bush supports it that it is wrong?
Edit: the sunnis are the minority, so they don't have as much power.


Fibonacci

I think you make way to many assumptions and ask loaded questions.

 

[outsider]

Just like christianity was the majorly accepted religon of the US before it was attacked by the liberals and the bible/ten commandments were/are a guide for legeslation.
You represent the party that says it accepts everyone, the party that defends the koran because of the rights of Americans who practice Islam, and attacks the bible because you say it offends Muslims, so what is wrong with Islam being the religion of state in Iraq? For the most part, the Koran provides a good moral guideline for Muslims, it is extremests who mis-interpret it and kill.

Edit: is it because you say bush supports it that it is wrong?
Edit: the sunnis are the minority, so they don't have as much power.


Fibonacci

First of all, Skyhunter asked Kat to spin it... you are not kat... Second of all, whatever you just said makes little sense to the discussion of which you were trying to continue on behalf of kat... 3rd, it's not a matter of opposing what Bush does... if he did something right, I would support it.

 

[Smurf]

[edit]


Care to try and spin that one Kat?

People keep bringing that up. Frankly I really don't see anything especially or extraordinarily wrong with using Islam for a basis of a constitution.

 

[Skyhunter]

People keep bringing that up. Frankly I really don't see anything especially or extraordinarily wrong with using Islam for a basis of a constitution.

You are not a woman I guess.

The role of women in Islam
Main article: women in Islam

Islam does not prohibit women from working, but emphasizes the importance of caring for house and family for both parents. Traditionally men have been able to prevent their wives from working by forbidding them to leave the house. In theory, Islamic law allows men to divorce at will, by saying "I divorce you" three times in public. In practice divorce is more involved than this and there may be separate state proceedings to follow as well. This practice is valid within most of the Muslim world today. Usually, the divorced wife keeps her dowry from when she was married, if there was one, and is given child support until the age of weaning, at which point the child may be returned to its father. There are only two ways of getting a divorce for women. In the case of a khü divorce a woman can give her husband a sum of money in exchange for him divorcing her. There is no minimum or maximum amount set for this form of divorce. In some schools of Islamic law a woman can petition a qadi for a divorce if her husband has abandoned her or is unfit to fulfill his duties as a husband.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#The_role_of_women_in_Islam

In practice it does not necessarily mean that Muslim nations are any worse than Christian nations. However slavery is not forbidden in the old testament and there are a number of practices in Leviticus that I would not like to see part of the law of the land. The problem is the constitution of Iraq is calling for Islamic law to be the law of the land, and that means the chief adjudicators of the law will not be judges, they will be clerics.

 

[Smurf]

But none of that is required by Islam, it's all just traditions that, even without islam, could very well have been sources for legislation. Besides, have you read the Iraqi constitution? It's as good as ours.

All Iraqis are equal in their rights without regard to gender, sect, opinion, belief, nationality, religion, or origin, and they are equal before the law. Discrimination against an Iraqi citizen on the basis of his gender, nationality, religion, or origin is prohibited. Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of his person. No one may be deprived of his life or liberty, except in accordance with legal procedures. All are equal before the courts.

I still see nothing wrong with using Islam except for a bit of fear mongering that it's going to turn into a tyrannical women-oppressing regime. Which I've heard no support for at all.

What we should really be worried about is all the federalist aspects.

 

[Skyhunter]

But none of that is required by Islam, it's all just traditions that, even without islam, could very well have been sources for legislation. Besides, have you read the Iraqi constitution? It's as good as ours.

I still see nothing wrong with using Islam except for a bit of fear mongering that it's going to turn into a tyrannical women-oppressing regime. Which I've heard no support for at all.

What we should really be worried about is all the federalist aspects.

The federalist aspect is probably what is going to doom it.

But the constitution itself does not necessarily guarantee anything.

Article 15.

(A) No civil law shall have retroactive effect unless the law so stipulates. There shall be neither a crime, nor punishment, except by law in effect at the time the crime is committed.

B) Police, investigators, or other governmental authorities may not violate the sanctity of private residences, whether these authorities belong to the federal or regional governments, governorates, municipalities, or local administrations, unless a judge or investigating magistrate has issued a search warrant in accordance with applicable law on the basis of information provided by a sworn individual who knew that bearing false witness would render him liable to punishment. Extreme exigent circumstances, as determined by a court of competent jurisdiction, may justify a warrantless search, but such exigencies shall be narrowly construed. In the event that a warrantless search is carried out in the absence of an extreme exigent circumstance, the evidence so seized, and any other evidence found derivatively from such search, shall be inadmissible in connection with a criminal charge, unless the court determines that the person who carried out the warrantless search believed reasonably and in good faith that the search was in accordance with the law.

(C) No one may be unlawfully arrested or detained, and no one may be detained by reason of political or religious beliefs.

(D) All persons shall be guaranteed the right to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, regardless of whether the proceeding is civil or criminal. Notice of the proceeding and its legal basis must be provided to the accused without delay.

(E) The accused is innocent until proven guilty pursuant to law, and he likewise has the right to engage independent and competent counsel, to remain silent in response to questions addressed to him with no compulsion to testify for any reason, to participate in preparing his defense, and to summon and examine witnesses or to ask the judge to do so. At the time a person is arrested, he must be notified of these rights.

(F) The right to a fair, speedy, and open trial shall be guaranteed.

(G) Every person deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention shall have the right of recourse to a court to determine the legality of his arrest or detention without delay and to order his release if this occurred in an illegal manner.

(H) After being found innocent of a charge, an accused may not be tried once again on the same charge.

(I) Civilians may not be tried before a military tribunal. Special or exceptional courts may not be established.

(J) Torture in all its forms, physical or mental, shall be prohibited under all circumstances, as shall be cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. No confession made under compulsion, torture, or threat thereof shall be relied upon or admitted into evidence for any reason in any proceeding, whether criminal or otherwise.

Doesn't our own constitution prohibit these practices?

Article 7.

A) Islam is the official religion of the State and is to be considered a source of legislation. No law that contradicts the universally agreed tenets of Islam, the principles of democracy, or the rights cited in Chapter Two of this Law may be enacted during the transitional period. This Law respects the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people and guarantees the full religious rights of all individuals to freedom of religious belief and practice.

(B) Iraq is a country of many nationalities, and the Arab people in Iraq are an inseparable part of the Arab nation.

My Persian friends thought like you did about Islamic law, when they were ousting the Shah of Iran. After they won the revolution they had to flee the country.

It sounds good but how will it work in practice, in this part of the world.

Do you know why Islam has so many ritual prayers?

Their society was patriarchal and very cruel. The men had all the power were brutal and hot-headed. These are people who survive and thrive in a desert, they were fierce. Muhammad showed them a way to peace. He was practical and knew that if he had calming rituals it would curb the violent tendencies of the men. The women remember what it was like and their greatest fear is that this jihad with America will throw their society back to the times before Mohammad