- #1
Graeme M
- 325
- 31
First up, I'm a very irregular visitor here. I should point out that I have no science background and only a high school education, so in my discussion here, I might misunderstand simple concepts and I almost certainly won't know the right terminology. I apologise in advance. :)
Now, I know this topic has probably been dealt with before on this forum, but I'm looking for some pretty pointed responses. I've not got much time spare for digging around trying to gather a broad cross section of explanations and my first few searches turned up a LOT of commentary some of which was way out of left field, some over my head, and some made sense. But I have a niggling problem with the 'standard' explanation. So I'm hoping there are some patient people here to help me out.
As far as I can tell, the agreed view of the answer to this problem is that a truck with sealed walls, floor and roof and which contains a flock of birds will weigh the same whether the birds are in flight or at rest. There are all sorts of variations on the theme regarding cages or meshed walls or whatever, but that seems to be the answer. The argument is that it is the flapping of the birds' wings that causes this - the downthrust bears on the floor of the truck with a thrust equal to their weight.
I struggle with this for a number of reasons, but before I dive into that have I got it right? To put it more simply:
1. A sealed box with the air inside at normal atmospheric pressure, placed on a scale, weighs X.
2. Add a bird of weight Y so that the total weight now equals X+Y.
3. If the bird takes to the air inside the box, flies around for awhile, and then resettles, the total weight of the box and bird 'system' is always X+Y.
4. The reason is that the birds flapping produces a downwards force that registers on the floor of the box as a force equal to the weight of the bird.
Is that a fair summary? If so, I have a couple of questions. If not... well... :)
Now, I know this topic has probably been dealt with before on this forum, but I'm looking for some pretty pointed responses. I've not got much time spare for digging around trying to gather a broad cross section of explanations and my first few searches turned up a LOT of commentary some of which was way out of left field, some over my head, and some made sense. But I have a niggling problem with the 'standard' explanation. So I'm hoping there are some patient people here to help me out.
As far as I can tell, the agreed view of the answer to this problem is that a truck with sealed walls, floor and roof and which contains a flock of birds will weigh the same whether the birds are in flight or at rest. There are all sorts of variations on the theme regarding cages or meshed walls or whatever, but that seems to be the answer. The argument is that it is the flapping of the birds' wings that causes this - the downthrust bears on the floor of the truck with a thrust equal to their weight.
I struggle with this for a number of reasons, but before I dive into that have I got it right? To put it more simply:
1. A sealed box with the air inside at normal atmospheric pressure, placed on a scale, weighs X.
2. Add a bird of weight Y so that the total weight now equals X+Y.
3. If the bird takes to the air inside the box, flies around for awhile, and then resettles, the total weight of the box and bird 'system' is always X+Y.
4. The reason is that the birds flapping produces a downwards force that registers on the floor of the box as a force equal to the weight of the bird.
Is that a fair summary? If so, I have a couple of questions. If not... well... :)