Black holes, dark matter, the expansion of the universe, and unifying theories.

[robertfergus]

A thought experiment

I have been thinking about this for twenty years and I would like to hear your opinions.
It relates to black holes, dark matter, the expansion of the universe, and unifying theories.

This is very simple and beautiful to me. Forgive my lack of formal training, my goal is simply to see things from a new perspective and hopefully to let humanity progress.

Just as there is positive and negative charge, let us imagine that there is positive and negative mass.
The equations for gravitational force and electrical force being so similar, I was attempting to include them in one equation.

Now imagine that positive mass attracts itself, and negative mass attract itself. Whereas positive and negative mass repel each other. (just the opposite of electrical force.)
For example with gravitational charges of (-1)*(-1) the result is a positive gravitational force, (1)*(1) is a positive gravitational force, and (-1)*(1) is a negative force (repelling).

It follows that negative mass would congregate in the center of the universe and repel positive mass, causing an expansion of the universe we can see.
And at the same time the negative matter that is scattered is converging into islands and moving towards the greatest negative mass which would be at the center.

We can also imagine that the universe is created by a change from a stable energy state, to a separation into opposite matters which then arrange according to these laws. I tend to see this as a sea, with waves, and when waves crash into each other there is a spurt up detaching itself. (Or like a diffraction pattern with spots of light and darkness depending on the pattern after uniform light has gone through two slits.)

And atoms in negative mass would be the opposite in constitution from the atoms in positive mass, in different ratios of smaller parts, combining depending on how they were originally spacially scattered at the time of the big bang?

It follows that light from negative mass would be invisible to us, and that our light would bend around concentrations of negative mass.

I believe this would be a nice explanation for the cosmological constant.
And what would one observe if black holes were negative mass, and when there is enough negative mass accumulated in the center of the galaxy, it repels the positive mass and continues turning? Would we see a sphere where positive mass is far enough from the repellant force but still sticking together in the optimal balance? And postive masses that were too close to the center of the galaxy would be expelled further, and tend to congregate in a plane?

And what would determine whether positive or negative mass would be in the center, merely whichever was present in the greater quantity within a certain space?

An object with positive mass traveling towards a concentration of negative mass would change direction, or if it entered, would be blown apart and appear scattered on the surface? Does this remind you of a black hole?
Would black holes eventually explode, like a supernova does from positive matter, but forming a quasar? With the energy converted from gravitational to quasar electromagnetic; shifted in frequency from the energy originating from supernovae since the constitution is different. However I do see a question here in that if one cannot observe the light from negative mass in fusion, why could we observe the electromagnetic waves from quasars. Ideas?
And when opposites collide they would turn back into the original energy.

What other consequences would one observe?

Please let me know your thoughts and forgive my ignorance of many aspects of physics. I do find physics so beautiful and intuitive.

Robert Alan Ferguson

 

[Vorde]

First of all, it's obvious you have put a lot of time and effort into this, and I want to make sure you don't think I am being overly aggressive, I am simply pointing out some points where there are holes in your logic.

Just as there is positive and negative charge, let us imagine that there is positive and negative mass.

As a start, there is no evidence for this, and while that shouldn't be reason enough to exclude this as a possibility, I am fairly sure the concept of negative mass goes against current physics, though I don't know enough to give examples. Regardless, there is absolutely no evidence saying it exists.

t follows that negative mass would congregate in the center of the universe

The hole here is in the 'center of the universe' part: there isn't one. There are many competing theories for the overall 'shape' of the universe (which in itself is sort of a fuzzy concept), but most models (with only 1 or 2 theories that differ) have no center. 'Why?' isn't obvious at all, but there are tons of threads already on the subject so I won't go into detail.

Also: Even if there was, why would the negative mass congregate there and not the positive mass?

causing an expansion of the universe we can see.

The problem here is that assuming this 'negative repulsion' follows the same laws that classical forces do (an inverse-square law), it's strength would decrease with distance from 'the center' (of this mass of negative mass), however when we look out into deep space we see that the further away an object is, the faster it is moving away from us, and we see this in all directions.

It follows that light from negative mass would be invisible to us

How?

 

[phinds]

You refer to the "center of the universe". There is no such thing.

You suggest "negative mass" with repulsive powers at the center of the galaxy. That would not jibe with observations, which conclusively show that there is a HUGE positive mass (believed to be a super-massive black hole) at the center of the galaxy.

Nearly as I can tell you are putting forth a personal theory not backed by evidence. You might want to check the forum rules. Overly speculative personal theories are frowned on.

You clearly have given this some thought and I don't mean to be discouraging or dismissive, but I think you would be wise to read up some more on the basics. The FAQ section in cosmology has some great stuff.

 

[juanrga]

A thought experiment

I have been thinking about this for twenty years and I would like to hear your opinions.
It relates to black holes, dark matter, the expansion of the universe, and unifying theories.

This is very simple and beautiful to me. Forgive my lack of formal training, my goal is simply to see things from a new perspective and hopefully to let humanity progress.

Just as there is positive and negative charge, let us imagine that there is positive and negative mass.

Science is not about what one can imagine but about the world that can observe.

The equations for gravitational force and electrical force being so similar, I was attempting to include them in one equation.

In fact the equations of Maxwell and of GR are very different. For example in GR there are not gravitational forces.

Now imagine that positive mass attracts itself, and negative mass attract itself. Whereas positive and negative mass repel each other. (just the opposite of electrical force.)
For example with gravitational charges of (-1)*(-1) the result is a positive gravitational force, (1)*(1) is a positive gravitational force, and (-1)*(1) is a negative force (repelling).

It follows that negative mass would congregate in the center of the universe and repel positive mass, causing an expansion of the universe we can see.

Except that it is an expansion of space itself, not expansion in space due to motion of masses (as in an explosion)

And at the same time the negative matter that is scattered is converging into islands and moving towards the greatest negative mass which would be at the center.

We can also imagine that the universe is created by a change from a stable energy state, to a separation into opposite matters which then arrange according to these laws. I tend to see this as a sea, with waves, and when waves crash into each other there is a spurt up detaching itself. (Or like a diffraction pattern with spots of light and darkness depending on the pattern after uniform light has gone through two slits.)

And atoms in negative mass would be the opposite in constitution from the atoms in positive mass, in different ratios of smaller parts, combining depending on how they were originally spacially scattered at the time of the big bang?

It follows that light from negative mass would be invisible to us, and that our light would bend around concentrations of negative mass.

I believe this would be a nice explanation for the cosmological constant.

It is not even a scientific explanation.

And what would one observe if black holes were negative mass, and when there is enough negative mass accumulated in the center of the galaxy, it repels the positive mass and continues turning? Would we see a sphere where positive mass is far enough from the repellant force but still sticking together in the optimal balance? And postive masses that were too close to the center of the galaxy would be expelled further, and tend to congregate in a plane?

And what would determine whether positive or negative mass would be in the center, merely whichever was present in the greater quantity within a certain space?

An object with positive mass traveling towards a concentration of negative mass would change direction, or if it entered, would be blown apart and appear scattered on the surface? Does this remind you of a black hole?
Would black holes eventually explode, like a supernova does from positive matter, but forming a quasar? With the energy converted from gravitational to quasar electromagnetic; shifted in frequency from the energy originating from supernovae since the constitution is different. However I do see a question here in that if one cannot observe the light from negative mass in fusion, why could we observe the electromagnetic waves from quasars. Ideas?
And when opposites collide they would turn back into the original energy.

What other consequences would one observe?

Please let me know your thoughts and forgive my ignorance of many aspects of physics. I do find physics so beautiful and intuitive.

Robert Alan Ferguson

If you find physics beautiful, my advice is that you would study it.

 

[phinds]

If you find physics beautiful, my advice is that you would study it.

YES ... as opposed to just rambling on about what you THINK is the case, it would be helpful to first learn what is already known so you don't run the risk of just making stuff up.