California Governor Jerry Brown Proposes Spending Cuts

[nismaratwork]

Legalize drugs, build the largest meth lab in the history of the universe, then sell meth to the other 49 states and the rest of the world.
Hate it all you want but you know it would work :P

I think it would actually drive down the price of meth so much that in essence, it would be like flooding the market with diamonds... well... diamonds that do nasty things. That's the other problem; you're going to over-saturate the market with a drug that lasts for a very long time... no... this would be a failed economic policy.

I think an earthquake would be best... you know... something really profound; a kind of natural jettisoning of increasingly dead weight.

 

[WhoWee]

Here's a short term solution - sell the topsoil - the environmental groups don't want any agribusiness anyway. Look at the money that could be saved on lawsuits over water.

 

[nismaratwork]

Here's a short term solution - sell the topsoil - the environmental groups don't want any agribusiness anyway. Look at the money that could be saved on lawsuits over water.

Have you lived in California??... you seem to really have a grip on the issues and the pathologies.

Yeah... actually, to just get honest with themselves, they should add gambling like Nevada and legalize marijuana HARD. Sell THAT, and reinvigorate their agricultural business... at least it's not meth! They can trade weed for water... I think that's sort of where they're going anyway...

 

[WhoWee]

They have the most productive farm land in the country. What do they do to increase production - turn off the water?

Next, look at the prisons and Medi-cal - here's a glimpse at what happens when the paths of the two programs cross:

http://www.lao.ca.gov/handouts/crimjust/2010/Inmate_Medical_Care_03_18_10.pdf

"The revised budget for 2009-10 refl ects a total of about $1.8 billion
in General Fund support for adult inmate medical operations
under the control of the federal court-appointed Receiver. This is
an increase of about $424 million, or 32 percent, from the
enacted 2009-10 budget, based on the following adjustments:"

my bold

 

[WhoWee]

Now Brown wants to cut $1.7 Billion by charging co-pays of up to $100.
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/how-brown-shaves-17-billion-medi-cal-budget-7971

"Gov. Jerry Brown is counting on fewer Medi-Cal users seeing the doctor, visiting the emergency room or spending the night in the hospital - by charging those low-income patients a co-pay of as much as $100.

In other words, what's bad for the patient, might be good for the state budget.

The expected drop in "utilization" – budget code for people who fail to take advantage of government services because of various roadblocks - is just one of the ways that Brown expects to carve $1.7 billion from Medi-Cal, the state health insurance program for the needy."

He's planning to restrict access to medical care with a co-pay?

 

[PhilKravitz]

How do thing compare north versus south in California?

 

[nismaratwork]

They have the most productive farm land in the country. What do they do to increase production - turn off the water?

Next, look at the prisons and Medi-cal - here's a glimpse at what happens when the paths of the two programs cross:

http://www.lao.ca.gov/handouts/crimjust/2010/Inmate_Medical_Care_03_18_10.pdf

"The revised budget for 2009-10 refl ects a total of about $1.8 billion
in General Fund support for adult inmate medical operations
under the control of the federal court-appointed Receiver. This is
an increase of about $424 million, or 32 percent, from the
enacted 2009-10 budget, based on the following adjustments:"

my bold

Wow... that's a HUUUUGE amount!

PhilKravitz: Historically the South has been wealthier, but water-poor, and the north (of LA and more) was typical pacific northwest.

 

[ShawnD]

I think it would actually drive down the price of meth so much that in essence, it would be like flooding the market with diamonds

I don't want to use diamonds as the example since that's a very complicated issue. Look at alcohol instead. According to this random website, alcohol is worth $280 billion per year in the US. Meth could very easily slip in there and take $24b. The budget problem could be fixed (pun intended) in 1 year.

But they won't listen to me. Instead, they'll probably jack the taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.The budget problem could probably be fixed with some basic common sense, but common sense is never as common as it should be. For example, prisons generally don't do anything to prevent prisoner-on-prisoner violence, but tax payers flip the bill to give medical treatment when it happens.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't want to use diamonds as the example since that's a very complicated issue. Look at alcohol instead. According to this random website, alcohol is worth $280 billion per year in the US. Meth could very easily slip in there and take $24b. The budget problem could be fixed (pun intended) in 1 year.

But they won't listen to me. Instead, they'll probably jack the taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.

Maybe they should just collect back taxes from all of the various convicted dealers - plus suspend all Medi-Cal benefits to prisoners (except for emergencies), and all benefits for "undocumented persons".

 

[PhilKravitz]

The California thing seem over blown Brown is going to cut spending 10% and increase taxes 10%. Here in New York we have cities increase taxes by 43% Newburgh, NY and cutting services. The mayor has left office. School districts increasing their tax 14%. 10% is tame.

 

[PhilKravitz]

If you do not like the increased taxes work less (Laffer curve MIT).

 

[WhoWee]

If you do not like the increased taxes work less (Laffer curve MIT).

How would you expect to pay your bills?

 

[PhilKravitz]

How would you expect to pay your bills?

Of course your tax bills are lower. As far as property tax move to a smaller house in a cheaper neighborhood. As far as medical care use less bigger deductible, as far as food grow some. It is the new normal the system will not provide for us we must provide for our selves and our community.

 

[WhoWee]

Of course your tax bills are lower. As far as property tax move to a smaller house in a cheaper neighborhood. As far as medical care use less bigger deductible, as far as food grow some. It is the new normal the system will not provide for us we must provide for our selves and our community.

You are basically specifying personal responsibility for tax paying citizens - in order for the state to continue to spend uncontrolled?

 

[nismaratwork]

You are basically specifying personal responsibility for tax paying citizens - in order for the state to continue to spend uncontrolled?

Good... I thought maybe I was misunderstanding him. Re-routing confiscation funds from the drug enforcement and back into the budget would allow for the dual forces of adding money to the budget, and shrinking the prison population and budget.

ShawnD: Meth is pretty nasty... I'd say stick with weed and sell it to the nation; it's already being done from California so why not tax it?

 

[ShawnD]

Maybe they should just collect back taxes from all of the various convicted dealers - plus suspend all Medi-Cal benefits to prisoners (except for emergencies), and all benefits for "undocumented persons".

They already do the first one (police auctions). The second one is mostly true. The third one will never happen because 99% of California is Mexican.

ShawnD: Meth is pretty nasty... I'd say stick with weed and sell it to the nation; it's already being done from California so why not tax it?

Not addictive enough to be profitable. Alcohol withdrawal causes seizures, nicotine withdrawal causes irritability, caffeine withdrawal causes headaches. Marijuana withdrawal involves getting a job and taking a shower.

 

[nismaratwork]

They already do the first one (police auctions). The second one is mostly true. The third one will never happen because 99% of California is Mexican.

Police auction proceeds go to... the police, not the general budget pool AFAIK.

As for the last... come one now, if that were true I think we'd see more on TV... right?

 

[WhoWee]

The third one will never happen because 99% of California is Mexican.

Already?

 

[ShawnD]

Police auction proceeds go to... the police, not the general budget pool AFAIK.

The money goes to the police so the police do not require as much funding from taxes.

As for the last... come one now, if that were true I think we'd see more on TV... right?

Ever watch that show Operation Repo? Crazy guy Matt is the only one there who isn't Mexican

 

[nismaratwork]

The money goes to the police so the police do not require as much funding from taxes.

Really? That strikes me as a bit of an oversight issue, and there have been issues.

Ever watch that show Operation Repo? Crazy guy Matt is the only one there who isn't Mexican

That's a scripted show, based on who knows what, acted by "former professionals"... you know that... RIGHT? Oh god, if you don't, let me know so I can clear my schedule for paroxysmal laughter.

Anyway, wink wink, if you were right it wouldn't matter. I shouldn't believe that 99% of priests are sticking it to little boys... right? That would be Twainish of my statistics, but funny... maybe true? I saw this episode of South Park that was very convincing...

 

[ShawnD]

That's a scripted show

Where every single character is Mexican.

 

[nismaratwork]

Where every single character is Mexican.

OOOOOoooohhh... So, we see them on TV... got it...

Yeah, I should have added a caveat or two; I haven't heard a joke that clever since Chris Rock made the same joke using black people and COPS.edit: So... did you know? Really, my schedule... please?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ever watch that show Operation Repo? Crazy guy Matt is the only one there who isn't Mexican

Shawn, you know full well your statement is false. Ca isn't 99% Mexican. Wiki shows it at 25% Mexican. Beyond that, some of the people who strongly oppose benefits for illegal Mexican immigrans, are legal Mexican immigrants. Many legal immigrants resent the fact that they followed the law, and the illegals just jump the fence.

The largest named ancestries in California are Mexican (25%), German (9%), Irish (7.7%), English (7.4%) and Filipino (6%); there are 65 other ethnicities including Albanians, Haitians, Pakistanis, and Somalis. Both Los Angeles and San Francisco have large numbers of residents with French, Italian, Portuguese, Russian and Scandinavian ancestry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California

 

[WhoWee]

The references provided here say Brown plans ~$12B cuts and another ~$12B increase from revenues to close the total $25B deficit.

The unemployment rate in CA is also a problem - 12.4% in November 2010 - as compared to 9.3% nationally. Among the "big" states, only Florida is comparable.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...ST370000:ST420000:ST510000:ST340000&tdim=true


It might be difficult to raise taxes enough to yield $12B?

 

[nismaratwork]

The unemployment rate in CA is also a problem - 12.4% in November 2010 - as compared to 9.3% nationally. Among the "big" states, only Florida is comparable.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...ST370000:ST420000:ST510000:ST340000&tdim=true


It might be difficult to raise taxes enough to yield $12B?

I'm not saying that people want to be unemployed as a rule, but if ever there was a state to coast on public welfare, however well meaning... CA is it. There's nothing wrong with a social experiment; there's a LOT wrong with not knowing when to pull the plug.

 

[WhoWee]

I'm not saying that people want to be unemployed as a rule, but if ever there was a state to coast on public welfare, however well meaning... CA is it. There's nothing wrong with a social experiment; there's a LOT wrong with not knowing when to pull the plug.

As far as I'm aware, these numbers are not inclusive of the undocumented persons or the people who've exhausted unemployment benefits - they could be over 20% total (or more?) unemployment. I'm wondering if they have enough taxpayers - earning enough income - to pay $12Billion in ADDITIONAL taxes?

 

[nismaratwork]

As far as I'm aware, these numbers are not inclusive of the undocumented persons or the people who've exhausted unemployment benefits - they could be over 20% total (or more?) unemployment. I'm wondering if they have enough taxpayers - earning enough income - to pay $12Billion in ADDITIONAL taxes?

Yeah... I'd find this much more academic if CA wasn't such a big chunk of the US economy. This is just flat-out alarming, even if you take conservative estimates.

 

[PhilKravitz]

What is the current California State tax rate? How high do we think it can go before voters stop it raising more?

 

[WhoWee]

What is the current California State tax rate? How high do we think it can go before voters stop it raising more?

The better question is how much more does everyone need to pay?

The total population of CA is nearly 37,000,000 (36,961,664) people.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servle...=&_cityTown=&_zip=&_sse=on&_lang=en&pctxt=fph

This total is up drastically nearly double since since 1970 - 19,971,069.
http://www.npg.org/states/ca.htm

The deficit of $25,000,000,000 total equals about $676 per (36,961,664) person.

Perhaps the burden should be shared equally - for people that pay taxes - pay extra AND for people that receive taxes - receive less. Why isn't this fair?

 

[PhilKravitz]

Whowee the total expense in the budget is 100.7 billion for this year
see http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf
with a population of 37 million we get $2700 per person so for a family of four that is $10,800. Of course not all tax comes from individuals so the real number is lower.

If your income range is between $0 and $7,168, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.
If your income range is between $7,169 and $16,994, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $16,995 and $26,821, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is between $26,822 and $37,233, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is between $37,234 and $47,055, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 8%.
If your income range is between $47,056 and $1,000,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 9.3%.
If your income range is $1,000,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 10.3%.

California seems in line with what other state spend and tax. What is the issue?

 

[WhoWee]

Whowee the total expense in the budget is 100.7 billion for this year
see http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf
with a population of 37 million we get $2700 per person so for a family of four that is $10,800. Of course not all tax comes from individuals so the real number is lower.

If your income range is between $0 and $7,168, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.
If your income range is between $7,169 and $16,994, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $16,995 and $26,821, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is between $26,822 and $37,233, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is between $37,234 and $47,055, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 8%.
If your income range is between $47,056 and $1,000,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 9.3%.
If your income range is $1,000,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 10.3%.

California seems in line with what other state spend and tax. What is the issue?

How many of the 37 million actually pay state taxes?

 

[PhilKravitz]

How many of the 37 million actually pay state taxes?

from http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/LFHIST/CA-Self-Employed.pdf

16.2 million Californians work.

That works out to $6200 per worker. Again not all state tax is from individuals.

At the federal level it is something like $17,500 per worker. Seems like the state is a bargain.

School tax ?
County tax?
Town tax?

do they have county governments in California?

 

[nismaratwork]

from http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/LFHIST/CA-Self-Employed.pdf

16.2 million Californians work.

That works out to $6200 per worker. Again not all state tax is from individuals.

At the federal level it is something like $17,500 per worker. Seems like the state is a bargain.

School tax ?
County tax?
Town tax?

do they have county governments in California?

16.2 out of 37.5 work, but that includes retirees and people in school/internships, right?

 

[WhoWee]

from http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/LFHIST/CA-Self-Employed.pdf

16.2 million Californians work.

That works out to $6200 per worker. Again not all state tax is from individuals.

At the federal level it is something like $17,500 per worker. Seems like the state is a bargain.

School tax ?
County tax?
Town tax?

do they have county governments in California?

I'm not cetain your link provides current information. Also, I assume you're looking at the total tax burder as $12,500,000,000/16,200,000 = $771 additional taxes per worker?

 

[WhoWee]

I have to wonder if this is the best use of these funds in the Central Valley - as compared to a re-investment into agriculture (water) perhaps?

http://www.constructiondigital.com/sectors/civil-engineering/california-benefits-rejected-arra-funding-high-speed-rail